Rotel 1066 vs. Outlaw 950 Shootout begins 6/21/02

[efarstad]

On Friday morning, June 21, 2002, two highly talked about and sought after home theater processors will go head to head...so strap on your boots, roll up your sleeves, and send the kids out to play for some serious 'bidness" is going to be taking place.

Who has the guns to be standing in the end?

Rotel :a>'> ?
Outlaw ;-x ?

....stay tuned for the battle is about to begin!

E





The Norwegian A/V Nut!
E-Cinema

[Jeff Aguilar]

Erik,

This should be a lot of fun. I am really looking forward to rattling the cedar shake right off of your house!

Jeff Aguilar

[Joe M]

As a proud (and happy) 1066/1095 owner, I can't wait

[markkjr]

Can already tell you the outcome since I had both in my HT side-by-side... but hey.... I want spoil the fun... Let the bullets fly!!! :LOL:




-Mark
Home Theater Specialist
www.digitalvortex.com

[Jeff Aguilar]

Mark,

Either me or Erik would be offended if you offered your opinion right now. :LOL: I wonder how I can cheat... :twisted: I hate to lose, or I should say that I NEVER lose at ANYTHING. :LOL:

Jeff

[efarstad]

I hate to lose, or I should say that I NEVER lose at ANYTHING.

Jeff, you've obviously never gone up against a Norwegian! :P

Jeff:f>'> Erik

LOL.... :rf

E





The Norwegian A/V Nut!
E-Cinema

[markkjr]

So what time tomorrow you guys getting started?

I do not want to say anything that may influence... but.... there can be no looser in this shoot out... really... nuff said...




-Mark
Home Theater Specialist
www.digitalvortex.com

[efarstad]

Shootout will begin probably around 9am PST time.

I agree with you Mark, there will be no loser just differences!

EVERYONE'S A WINNER...now let's gather..."GROUP HUG!"

:rf

E





The Norwegian A/V Nut!
E-Cinema

[Jeff Aguilar]

Sorry Erik,

I am not into the group hug thang. ops:

I agree, there will not be any winners or looser, they will just be different. It will be nice to have someone else say whether or not they hear a hiss or hum in my system. I certainly do not hear one.

I just read on another forum where someone who is using the same amp as me hears a hiss. More tomorrow.

jeff

[Andrew Pratt]

So hows it going fellas?

[markkjr]

Pacific time Andrew.... 1/2 hour more and they should be starting... :LOL:




-Mark
Home Theater Specialist
www.digitalvortex.com

[P-Dub]

Sorry to inform you that you will have to wait some 1:20 more. It's only 7:40 am out here on the west coast.




Paul

There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.

[Kevin P]

9 AM PST = 12 PM EDT, also HTGuide Standard Time. So, when your posts say 12 PM, the shootout starts!

KJP




Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
My HT Site

[Sonnie Parker]

Well it must be underway then!

Reckon they got their hands wrapped and the boxing gloves on yet?

This could end up being as lopsided as the Lewis vs. Tyson match....but somehow I think it will be closer.






SONNIE

Cedar Creek Cinema

DVD Collection

BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

[Andrew Pratt]

Honestly I expect this to be similar to other comparisons between them in that they'll sound a lot more alike then different. I'd also bet the Rotel sounds a little warmer and the Outlaw is a little brighter as well the Rotel should win points for looks and build quality (button ergonomics etc)

[efarstad]

OFFICIAL SHOOTOUT RESULTS

As the sun began to rise above Mt. Rainier, The Outlaw 950 and Rotel RSP-1066 began their walk to their separate corners!


The Jury involved were myself (on the left), Jeff (in the middle), and Dusty (on the right). The Rotel is mine, the Outlaw is Jeffs, and Dusty was there to be the unbias critical listener!


Jeff was kind enough to open his house up and here's what we used for the shootout:

Amps: Parasound 855's biamping the mains and center channel.
Speakers: Energy Verita's 2.1 for L/R, 2.0 for center, Take 2's for side rears and in-ceiling speakers for back center (two of them).
Subs: Two SVS 16-46 PC with driver upgrades.


For cables between preamp and amp we used my brand new Quantum SuperNova's! And let me tell you THEY SANG! When Jeff and Dusty saw these babies...they both said "WOW" they're pretty! You owe it to yourself to check these out, you'll find more info at http://www.catcables.com/.


The software we chose for this shoot are as follows:
For music the CD's include, Norah Jones, Nickel Creek, Keb Mo, Zoe Girl, and Toby Mac.
For Movies we chose just one: Fifth element, in particular the Diva performance/fight scene.


Here is what the two looked like, literally, stacked up against each other. You'll notice that the Outlaw is almost 2 inches deeper than the Rotel and about 1/2 inch taller.



We didn't spend much time on the old cosmetic debate, but Dusty our trusted unbias juror did say that he liked the looks of the Rotel by saying it looked "cleaner" and he mentioned liking the handles on the side. He commented on the "rubber feel" of the Outlaw volume nob. The remotes were once again not focussed on too much but again Dusty liked the fact that the Rotel had the "word or function" on the remote button whereas the Outlaw has the function writtin on the remote (not the button) so it's easier to see when using the backlite function.

We calibrated both units so that they were EXACTLY at the same SPL levels for all listening tests (averaging 80 to peaks of 92)...we started with music (2-channel WITH subwoofer...crossover set at 60hz for both units).

Music on the Outlaw: Vocals, piano, bass...all instruments and vocals were precise. Clarity and dynamics were spot on with definate room to push the amps limits (though we didn't). Presentation of the recording was very good with a definite "brighter" quality when compared to the Rotel. It was as if the music was "coming at you" from the soundstage. Actual soundstage, as well as overall separation of instruments within the listening material was excellent. As Dusty pointed out, "there is a good balance of vocals and instruments that I can hear along the soundstage."

Music on the Rotel: As with the Outlaw, precision, speed, and those subtle musical que's were all presented nicely. Clarity and dynamics, again wonderful. Where the Rotel separates itself is in the presentation and soundstage. Whereas the Outlaw's presentation of the soundstage was excellent and brighter, the Rotel did a better job of separating the vocals from the instruments in the recording and presented them in a "warmer" or smoother (to quote Dusty) manner. (I know this bright vs. warm debate has been raging, but Dusty who has not been involved in this or knew about it was the first to point this out).

In a nutshell, the Outlaw and Rotel both presented the music very dynamically, with clarity and precision. The Rotel led the Outlaw ever so slightly in depth of soundstage and vocal and instrument separation. It was as if the Outlaw was "throwing" the music at you, while the Rotel was spreading it out infront of you. This was most notible on Norah Jone's album. On the Outlaw the recording sounded like the music and vocals were all presented infront of you. While the Rotel added a sense of depth which put Norah upstage and the musicians behind her both left and right. We also noticed on the EXCELLENT (that's my opinon btw) Nickel Creek album that the instruments had better depth, separation, and heigth with the Rotel.

Movies: We engaged the Outlaw Cirrus Expand mode and Rotel's XS mode for listening of the Fifth Element. Both essentially do the same thing, expand 5.1 for 6.1 or 7.1 (we had 7.1). This will be short and sweet....complete draw. We heard no differences, if there were any it was SO subtle it would not even be worth mentioning them. Clarity, dynamics, subtle effect presentation, all there on both units during our demo. Both the Rotel and the Outlaw performed like champions and would make any movie watcher a pleased camper!

So what does this tell you? Is one better then the other? NO WAY. Are there differences, YOU BET! We all concluded that the Outlaw did present music in a brighter fashion, with excellent soundstaging, clarity, and dynamics. The Rotel had a definate warmer presentation, better depth and heigth of soundstage, with equally good dynamics.

We were WOWED with both units and we all said we'd be happy with either one. Please walk away reading this knowing that these are three guys' opinions and you may hear or experience different things. I'm thrilled with my Rotel and Jeff is thrilled with his Outlaw, shoot Dusty might even go out and get himself one or the other!

The bottom line is this: Listen to them both if you have the chance, and keep which one sounds best to you. If you have the Outlaw and like it, know you have an excellent performer. If you have the Rotel and like it, know you too have an excelletn performer!

Now let's all go and enjoy our music and be wowed with our movies!

E

P.S. Jeff if you have ANYTHING to add or you think I presented something in error, feel free to add your comments as well. And thanks again for a great time and opening up your wonderful home!





The Norwegian A/V Nut!
E-Cinema

[Andrew Pratt]

Thanks Dusty, Jeff and Erik for taking the time to review these two units. Your findings were exactly what I figured you'd find.

[Sonnie Parker]

Sounds like you guys went all out and did a very good job indeed.

Since I'm considering a new pre/pro I truly appreciate your efforts.

Thanks!

Btw, is that a cold Bud I see in that picture behind you guys???

lol j/k






SONNIE

Cedar Creek Cinema

DVD Collection

BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

[Lex]

Wow, great shootout. :a>'>

Not any :f>'> that I could see either.

Could it be that the Outlaw is more transparent than the Rotel? Brightness is a subjective term, but then so is transparency. I only mention this because what's bright to one person is transparent to another.

Given this difference, I would say that silver would not be the right choice of cables for the Outlaw, but could work well with the Rotel. Of course, it's always hard to go wrong with a great copper cable, as a neutral presentation with near zero influence on what you hear.

But then cables can be a subjective thing, as to what's right, again with room and speaker influences as well as sources even. So, I don't think I can undisputably say silver is wrong for the Outlaw. I will just say it "could be".

Thanks guys,

Lex

P.S- I really liked the cables you used! 8)

[SiliGoose]

It was as if the Outlaw was "throwing" the music at you, while the Rotel was spreading it out infront of you

Great phrase. Much more descriptive than most reviews.

How about set-up and general ease of use? Did you guys pick a winner in those categories?




-Sili

[markkjr]

Yep... exactly what I concluded when I did the same test in my HT!

You 3 amigos did a great job at a shoot-out and should be commended!

Like I said above, there would be no loser or winner… you can not go wrong with either Pre/Pro…. they both do one heck of a good job.




-Mark
Home Theater Specialist
www.digitalvortex.com

[Markj]

This is the kind of info that will really help those that are looking at either one of these units. I'm not in the market for a new pre/pro but it was fun reading about the shootout! Great work!

[efarstad]

Lex:

Could it be that the Outlaw is more transparent than the Rotel? Brightness is a subjective term, but then so is transparency. I only mention this because what's bright to one person is transparent to another.

That's a great comment. I remember reading that someone else thought that bright might be another word for transparent...as we all know this shootout might have "sounded" different had we done it at say my house with my Martin Logans...or your house with your X-speaker, etc, etc, etc,.... The end result...component matching with speakers IS CRITICAL if you're looking for either the "warm" or "bright/transparent" sound or whatever sound you prefer.

Sili:

Quote:
It was as if the Outlaw was "throwing" the music at you, while the Rotel was spreading it out infront of you

Great phrase. Much more descriptive than most reviews.

How about set-up and general ease of use? Did you guys pick a winner in those categories?

Thanks Sili, perhaps I should patent that phrase because that's THE BEST way I can describe what we heard. 8)

As to ease of use, both were just as easy and quick to setup and calibrate...so winner is both of them actually. No one took longer or was more time consuming. They do have different features, like Outlaws triple crossover, etc...so certain functions like that may take more setup but are not difficult.

Thanks for all the comments guys...it was fun!

E





The Norwegian A/V Nut!
E-Cinema

[Jeff Aguilar]

Sorry that it has taken me so long to post to this review. Some of us have to work on Friday's! 8O

It was a great time and it was nice to get together with Erik again. I did get a chance to ask Dusty which pre/pro he would have picked. Actually, let me rephrase that, he offered it to me while I was dropping him off at home. He liked the sound of the Outlaw. Honestly, I did not pay him to say that.

As Erik said, BOTH units sound fantastic! The rotel is definitely the better looking and has a better remote. Nothing new there. Fortunately, when I listen to music I am not watching the pre/pro. It's in another room. And for a remote I use a pronto. So, that is how I justified those differences.

I HAVE NEVER heard my stereo sound as good as it did today!!! I cannot stress that enough. I have only had the Outlaw for a week and have not had much of any time to play with it. This was a super venue to be able to put it through it's paces. Let me say this one more time, I HAVE NEVER heard my system sound this good before. The SVS subs really blended in well the my Veritas. It was not overpowering (That was a compliment from Erik), they were really tunned in correctly!

We all agreed that the Outlaw threw the music out at you while the Rotel sounded a little smoother in it's presentation. But one thing that may sound like a contradiction is that with the Rotel, the lead vocals on the Nora Jones CD pierced my ears to the point where it was hurting. We actually needed to turn it down some. So while it sounded smoother with the instruments, the vocals kind of hurt. Now, it could have been my speakers, becuase when we went back to Erik's house and listened to it on the Martin Logan's, it seemed to have smoother vocals. But that was through his stereo only system. So Erik, we need to listen to that CD through your Rotel with your Martin Logans.

As far as the hiss is concerned, I did not even hear it until I asked Erik about it. We physically had to put our ear up to the tweeter to hear it and then it dissapated in 6 to 12 inches. So, for my system, it was not a problem. When I had my parasound hooked up through my Yamaha 992 receiver, there was a definite hum through my system, but not when it is hooked through the Outlaw.

It was great to have Dusty at the shootout because he did not own any of the gear. After listening to the first set of CD's and switching gear, he was the one the who noticed the difference. To be honest, I did not catch it at first. We had to then switch pre/pro's right away to find out what he was talking about. It was great to have him there.

Both setup menus were easy to use. I think the Outlaw was a little more simplified. With both the Outlaw and the Rotel, you can assign inputs but with the rotel you can change the name of the input. I REALLY like the tripple crossover feature. I did not realize this until the comparison. It was really nice to set my mains at 60 and my rears at 100 htz. Since they are different sizes. Both setups were great and easy to use.

I am sure that I will think of more later. Again, this was a lot of fun, BOTH units ARE FANTASATIC and you would be happy with either unit.

Jeff Aguilar

[Jeff Aguilar]

Sili,

If Erik gets to patent that phase

It was as if the Outlaw was "throwing" the music at you, while the Rotel was spreading it out infront of you
Great phrase. Much more descriptive than most reviews.

How about set-up and general ease of use? Did you guys pick a winner in those categories?

(alt+q)

Dusty and I should get the royalities from it. We actually discussed for 10 minutes what the difference was that we were hearing. It took that discussion to nail down what we were hearing. That was the fun part about this, we got to discuss differences without the possiblity of offense.

Jeff

[efarstad]

Jeff, I don't think me, you, or Dusty's getting a thing (I don't have any patents and you royalties)...we're just a bunch of guys with too much time on our hands that we love to spend 3 hours switching cables around! :rf

Yea, we'll have to listen to Nora again...I do believe we had her a bit cranked over at your place...she was hurtin' my ears too...I knew I'd forget something in my write-up! I've listened to that same song through the Rotel, CRANKED, with my Martins and no pain...so it could just be your Energy's who knows??? That's why THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR for anyone reading this is listen to whatever you're considering in your home, with your speakers and gear...to really find out how it will perform for YOU!!!! 8)

That was fun...let's do it again? ;lx

NAH...let's let some of you other crazies out there do it!

E





The Norwegian A/V Nut!
E-Cinema

[Kevin P]

Great reviews guys. I guess I couldn't go wrong with either pre-pro then. Of course it also makes the decision more difficult--which one to get. I would have to try both and then keep the one I like better I guess. Both of them have their perks but neither is clearly better than the other.

Maybe if someone living near me gets either one, I'll get the other and then we'll have a shootout!

KJP




Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
My HT Site

[Lex]

Thanks for your writeup too Jeff.

You guys put a lot of time into this, and we do thank you. It was interesting for sure!

In the end, it is all about synergy. Synergy between pre-pro, amp, speakers, sources, cables, media, and room! There's a lot of variables here for sure.

If we all listened in anechoic chambers, to the same gear, how much fun would that be? LOL.

Lex

[Trevor Schell]

Great reveiw guys!!

:-y

Them cables sure were pretty!..:T




Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
Sonically Enhanced
C5

[Lex]

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