Home Depot Birch Plywood

[Exocer]

Hey guys,
I am building some enclosures at the moment and im thinking about going with a Plywood this time around instead of MDF. Home Depot has some plywood on their site available for in-store pickup, I was wondering if this wood was worth the price premium over MDF? http://homedepot.bighammersoftware.c...spx?cid=834246
or http://homedepot.bighammersoftware.c...c-067422c0b430
Another alternative would be to look elsewhere for baltic birch...and If so, where?

[ThomasW]

The HD severs don't allow hot linking to specific products.

The good BB ply has 13 layers...Here's a thread where we basically talk this subject to death......:wink:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=18698&highlight=Baltic+Birch+ply

[ThomasW]

Don't know if you live near a Rockler store. They're having a 50% off sale on BB ply through July 16th. It's with a coupon, but they always have the flyers containing the coupons at the stores..

[Exocer]

Thanks a million.

[Mazeroth]

The website shows their 3/4" baltic only going up to 24x30 pieces. Do you guys know if they sell larger pieces than this at the store?

Thanks!

[ThomasW]

I've seen 1/2 sheets so 25"X50" at my local store. I've sure availability varies at different locations so probably best to call ahead.

[Amphiprion]

Thanks for the info! I saw this thread on Friday and happened to be in Dallas this weekend where they have a Rockler store. I picked up two panels of 2' x 5' baltic birch. They are normally $30 each but at half price I got two panels for that same price. Very good looking stuff. Most of their 3/4" stock was in the 2' x 5' size, practically all of the 2' x 2.5' stuff was 1/2 or 3/8 (definitely not 3/4). Of course, your local store may vary.

Oh, and I picked up a 12"x6" piece of 8/4 purpleheart at Hogan Hardwoods for all of $6. I'm gonna do an emerald style gem cut on it, lacquer the heck out of it and use as a paperweight Good times.

[Jack Gilvey]

I haven't seen the nice stuff I posted a pic of in that thread in HD in my last few visits.

[JonP]

Perhaps not all Rocklers are the same, but the local one to me has on a regular basis, stacks of offcut 5/8" (they're like 22x23" or similar) for $4 a sheet. Probably getting them as leftovers from some major milling project someplace. Many of them have pretty nice looking grain figure.

A little thin? Well, the good BB is very stiff, and especially if you're doing smaller box projects, probably just as good with decent bracing and dampening inside.

[Exocer]

I haven't seen the nice stuff I posted a pic of in that thread in HD in my last few visits.

Visited the closest HD just a while ago, didn't see it either. I'll be checking another some time later this week.

Rockler has what I am looking for but Id like to keep the wood cost under $100, and there aren't any local Rockler shops so I'd have to order..

[ThomasW]

Very few HD's stock it, some will special order...

This stuff is HEAVY so it's not something you want to pay to have shipped to you.

[Amphiprion]

Jack,

We have that stuff here at the Home Depot's in Texas. I used it for the shelves and workbench I built for my father's garage. It's decent ply, cuts easier than BB, and it's easier to get a nicer edge, but it is not baltic birch. It's probably as good or better than MDF IMO, but Baltic birch seems stiffer to me, and the surface veneer is harder (I would assume the same about the plies). I was cutting BB last night and if I didn't do the fingernail test on the edge of the board to see what the better cutting direction for the face veneer was, I got some splintering on the cut (whereas the cut other direction, the edge comes out perfectly smooth).

Also, about prices on baltic birch. I got a REAL shocker when I stopped at Hogan Hardwoods in Austin. Hogan's is a regional chain in Texas, Oaklahoma, Arkansas, Lousiana, and they have on store in the Florida panhandle. Anyway, I was there looking at veneers and some hardwood stock, and inquired about the price of baltic birch. Get this:

13 ply Baltic Birch, 5' x 5' x 3/4", was $34.34 a sheet :E Now they had a sale going on, 30% off selected items, but the sales guy did not indicate that this was the sales price when I asked for the quote nor did the quote sheet he printed out have any indication of a sale or reduced price. The exact quote sheet shows the item as:

Item Number 815-315811-00 L BIRCH RUSSIAN 18MM 5X5 BB/BB 1.0000 EA 34.3400

So, I think that's the real deal. If anyone knows for sure that it's not, please correct me. I'm still glad I bought the Rockler stuff on sale, since 2x5 is all I could fit in my car and I didn't need the extra foot of material. But if this is their regular price and it's the real deal, then I just found my new subwoofer building material.

A warning though: the stuff I got at Rockler IS NOT 3/4" - it is 18mm metric stuff. My boards were not quite 1/16" shy of .75" according to a quickie tape measure measurement at the saw. Fortunately I knew this before hand and designed the sub such that any mistakes due to this wouldn't matter (wrap-around box panels on a square box with slightly oversized top & bottom panels to be trimmed or routed flush). Just a warning for anyone considering this stuff.

[ThomasW]

I got a REAL shocker when I stopped at Hogan Hardwoods in Austin......13 ply Baltic Birch, 5' x 5' x 3/4", was $34.34

It's going to be more of a shock when I tell you that's actually a very good price. So stock up. I've seen the same stuff for more than $50 a sheet

FIY all of the 13 ply material is 18mm.

[Amphiprion]

Hogan's seems to have dropped their prices a significant amount since they bought out Paxton's (who used to own the location - the business has hardly changed other than the name and pricing). So it kind of makes me wonder what is up. But yeah, I might take the suburban to Austin next trip and get a few more sheets.

[ThomasW]

Hogan's seems to have dropped their prices a significant amount since they bought out Paxton's

Interesting, we have? possibly had? a Paxton here in Denver. I'll look through the yellow page to see if anything's changed. If it's now a Hogans with $34/sheet pricing I'll be stocking up.... :T

[Amphiprion]

For reference, I paid right about $50/sheet for the 4x8 1.25" MDF I used on my Tempest project back when it was Paxton's. Don't know how much it would go for now that it is Hogan's, but I could ask next time I'm there.

[Exocer]

1.25" MDF? Thats some thick MDF...

[ThomasW]

1.25" MDF? Thats some thick MDF...

Yep and it's really lightweight to move a 4'X8' sheet around..... 8O

Been there, done that, won't ever do it again.. :nonod:

[Amphiprion]

Yep, Hank proved what a gentleman he is when I showed up at his place with four sheets of it in the back of my suburban to push across his saw :B He really puts up with too much from me.

Here's the start of that project BTW:

http://www.hayenga.com/mark/speakers/tempest/tempests.htm

[Jack Gilvey]

We have that stuff here at the Home Depot's in Texas. I used it for the shelves and workbench I built for my father's garage. It's decent ply, cuts easier than BB, and it's easier to get a nicer edge, but it is not baltic birch.

As I mentioned, they just called it "birch ply" or something. 13-ply, very-low-voids, nicely rigid, and a helluva lot better to work with than MDF. Now I can't find it...

13 ply Baltic Birch, 5' x 5' x 3/4", was $34.34 a sheet

Buy me some.

[Amphiprion]

Hmm, it may not be the same stuff then - it looked exactly like your picture, but was just labeled 'hardwood ply' or some such, not specifically birch. I'll check what the label says next time I'm at HD.

Oh, and about the cheap price on the BB - I'll pick you some up if you're willing to pay shipping

[Jack Gilvey]

Hmm, it may not be the same stuff then - it looked exactly like your picture, but was just labeled 'hardwood ply' or some such, not specifically birch. I'll check what the label says next time I'm at HD.

I haven't touched "real" BB in a while, so I'm not sure how it compares directly, but it seems to have similar qualities and makes a nice, rigid box.

Oh, and about the cheap price on the BB - I'll pick you some up if you're willing to pay shipping

There's always a catch.

[Exocer]

Anyone check out the 2'x4' Oak plywood?
Checked it out today and it had what I thought to be very few voids. I could count about 13 layers although these layers weren't as similar in thickness to eachother as the pics Jack and Thomas have posted of the BB layers. around $15 a sheet

[Amphiprion]

I've used it for the tops of sonotube subwoofers. It looks real good with some golden oak danish oil thrown on. One of my tube caps, however, had a void on the edge of the circle right underneath the veneer. Router tore up the veneer at that spot and I had to make a patch. Let me find a pic....

https://www.hayenga.com/mark/speakers/old/patch.jpg

[Jack Gilvey]

Hah...Mark's "patches" look better than my "perfection". What a hack I am...

[---k---]

Jack, we can form a club.

[Amphiprion]

I was so angry when that tearout occurred (as I thought I had purchased void-free) that I spent an inordinate amount of time making that patch. It looked even better than in the picture.

Now some of my other screwups... those become buckshot fodder. In fact I've got to go compare prices on #4 and 00 buck this afternoon for a box I messed up last week.

[Exocer]

Mark, great patchup job :T

I've given up on finding the "good" BB at any Home Depot around me. I've gone to three so far and they each want to charge 42.95 for 4'x8' sheets of what seems like 5-7 layer Birch ply. Not a bad wood by any means, but definitely not worth 42.95 a sheet if you guys are getting the good stuff for even cheaper..

[Brian Bunge]

Honestly, that's what cabinet grade birch ply goes for. My dad has built cabinets from this stuff for years and it's always been roughly that price. Last year there was some cheap stuff that came in from China that was around $30/sheet but it was obviously not as nice.

Oh, and I also paid $30/sheet for 2x5 sheets of 3/4" BB ply from Rockler.

[Exocer]

Honestly, that's what cabinet grade birch ply goes for. My dad has built cabinets from this stuff for years and it's always been roughly that price. Last year there was some cheap stuff that came in from China that was around $30/sheet but it was obviously not as nice.

Oh, and I also paid $30/sheet for 2x5 sheets of 3/4" BB ply from Rockler.

The price I saw is alright if it were the 13 layer ply everyone talks about..the birch ply available was about 5-7 layers , still ~3/4" thick though

[Brian Bunge]

The price I saw is alright if it were the 13 layer ply everyone talks about..the birch ply available was about 5-7 layers , still ~3/4" thick though

Yep, that's normally what it is: 5-7 layers. I know it seems steep to you, but other than the one price quoted earlier, BB ply is much more expensive for the same amount of wood. Again, we're talking cabinet grade birch ply and this is what it normally costs even from commercial suppliers.

[Exocer]

Brian, Got it!

Oh and surfing the web I came accross this site http://www.arroyohardwoods.com/Depar...habetical.html
if anyone is curious about other types of plywood

[Exocer]

Brian Is the 5-7 layer Birch good for speaker enclosures? I mean, I've seen some really attractive "Red Oak" ply handy-panels at HD for $15 a peice 2'x4'. Yeah there are some small voids, but would this be better than MDF to work with?

[Amphiprion]

That's the stuff I used for my oak endcaps pictured above. It's not bad stuff, I think it'd be fine for a sub enclosure. And the veneer is pretty decent quality if you pick out a nice piece.

[Exocer]

Mark cool, what about for an MTM enclosure?

[Dennis H]

The thing is the interior plies of the 5-7 ply stuff is softwood, probably fir or hemlock, with a hardwood veneer. The real 13-ply Baltic Birch, Appleply or marine plywoood is hardwood throughout.

[Amphiprion]

I don't like the idea of ply for full range cabinets, but maybe someone will come along and show me otherwise. For now, I think full range cabs should be MDF all the way :T

[Jack Gilvey]

I don't like the idea of ply for full range cabinets, but maybe someone will come along and show me otherwise. For now, I think full range cabs should be MDF all the way

Here's the way I understand it from the parts of Greg Monfort's old posts I could actually understand. The high rigidity (MOE?) of something like BB makes it easy to build a braced cabinet in which resonance is fairly high and out of the intended bandwidth of a subwoofer. Such a sub cabinet can ring like a bell when knocked, but can be effectively dead in subwoofer duty. MDF, on the other hand, is far less rigid and is probably better for full-range use as you can force resonances lower in frequency and amplitude more easily, typically through thickness/weight. I think. In general. IMO.

[Hank]

I belive Jack capsulized it spot on.

[Amphiprion]

So the idea with the MDF is to make lower Q/lower amplitude resonances in full range cabinets?

Honestly, I've never attached an accelerometer to a cab myself to measure the difference. I need to buy one.

[Jack Gilvey]

So the idea with the MDF is to make lower Q/lower amplitude resonances in full range cabinets?

I think that's the way it works. Certainly it works in sub cabinets also, but should be heavy and well-braced in a brute-force approach toward resonance.

[Carl V]

For full range speakers-- BB & MDF a'la the Northcreek manifesto
seeems to yield very good results. The late Ken Martinez helped
me to see this advantage. YOu can even get away with 1/2" stock
supplemented with various liners...such as No Rez, Felt or "goop".

[Exocer]

Thanks a lot guys, looks like i'll just stick to the messy MDF for this project. Maybe Ply for my next subwoofer project..

[Amphiprion]

What's the speed of sound in ply vs. mdf?

[Jack Gilvey]

About the same as an unladen swallow.