Digital amplifiers?

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  • Neoplasm
    Junior Member
    • Feb 2006
    • 3

    Digital amplifiers?

    Hello everybody!
    I am considering building my first high-end system with 802D, 805S, HTM2D, ASW855. I do need to drive these with excellence and doing some heavy reading about the Danish Lyngdorf, also known as TACT.

    My setup will be based on multiple LYNGDORF TDA2200AD and SDA2175 bi-amped for front and centre.
    <link deleted by admin>

    I have read a lot of positive judgments and reviews about this digital approach but I need to reach someone who has already chosen this path and living with it on everyday basis.

    With regards
    Sesam

    PS: Digital is my only choice because I do not want any heaters which need to be heated before application (power efficiency 20-30%) or heavy bricks.
  • Lex
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Apr 2001
    • 27461

    #2
    I'm going to ask that you don't present alternate competing digital amp links on a site now sponsored by Nuforce, so I've deleted your link to that site.

    I will let you see if anyone here uses similar setup by name though, but if not, then attention returns to B & W for this is club B & W.


    Frankly, your going to find few people here familiar with that brand amp I would think anyway.

    Doug
    Doug
    "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

    Comment

    • Neoplasm
      Junior Member
      • Feb 2006
      • 3

      #3
      Originally posted by Lex
      I'm going to ask that you don't present alternate competing digital amp links on a site now sponsored by Nuforce, so I've deleted your link to that site.

      I will let you see if anyone here uses similar setup by name though, but if not, then attention returns to B & W for this is club B & W.


      Frankly, your going to find few people here familiar with that brand amp I would think anyway.

      Doug
      Sorry I didn’t grasp that before. I haven’t even heard about a brand called nuForce before now. I thank you for showing me another product to research.
      By the way I joined your forum because you matched my search category. B & W is British and it was reasonable to assume that TACT is well known overseas as well.

      Comment

      • Aussie Geoff
        Super Senior Member
        • Oct 2003
        • 1914

        #4
        Hi,

        I really like the Nuforce's myself - for my ears they beat any TACT based amp.... Othoer digital amps that go well with B&Ws include the Bel Canto Evo and Ref series and the new Rotel RB-1091 and 1092...

        Enjoy your reasearch and listen to as many as you can...

        Geoff

        Comment

        • ThomasW
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 10934

          #5
          For those that don't know, the NuForce are not 'digital' amps, they're analog switching amps with digital switching power supplies.
          Last edited by ThomasW; 16 February 2006, 16:03 Thursday.

          IB subwoofer FAQ page


          "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

          Comment

          • Lex
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Apr 2001
            • 27461

            #6
            Ok, tit for tat, this is still Club B & W, not club digital amp or digital switching power supplies. A new poster needs to understand where he is asking for info. I respect that he has B & W speakers, and wants some general info, but a site link to an amp is not necessary to discuss what he needed to know...

            Perhaps I was to agressive in how I presented my request before. We will offer Nuforce some respect, some space, that doesn't mean every other digital/or/analogdigital amp is off topic completely, but there's a time and a place-
            Doug
            "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

            Comment

            • DrJRapp
              Super Senior Member
              • Apr 2003
              • 1204

              #7
              I was one of the naysayers that originally thought that the new generation solid state ( I won't use the term "digital") amps from Rotel, Bel Canto and NuForce couldn't sound as good as everyone claims because they are small and don't weigh much. I'm one of the "old farts" that up until recently still judged an amps quality by it's weight...lol Then I was force into using a Panasonic XR 25 receiver in my MBR due to space limitations. It's performance was a real eye opener, or rather, ear opener. From there I switched my main HT system to a Rotel 1077 and most everyone here at HTG knows how I think about that amp. Now I am using a pair of NuForce Refr9s in my study library with B&W Xt4s and my comments are that the Ref9s are truely world class and can keep up with the best that is out there in their power class, and perhaps a bit higher.

              You would be doing yourself (and your pocket book!) a great disservice if you overlook these amps.
              Jerry Rappaport

              Comment

              • Neoplasm
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2006
                • 3

                #8
                I actually ordered these speakers and awaiting there arrival. I am UN owner because I paid the bill!
                Thanks to your reference, I meant Lex, I found one awesome link to one Swedish forum in Nuforce home page
                I found plenty of users and as we speak joining and paging through one massive forum.

                This will be my last time to enter this forum. Never the less I wish you all the best.

                Comment

                • DrJRapp
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 1204

                  #9
                  Hey Neo...come back and visit every now and then!
                  Jerry Rappaport

                  Comment

                  • Aussie Geoff
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Oct 2003
                    • 1914

                    #10
                    Hi,

                    I've moved this to the Audio Hideout where it fits better than Club B&W!

                    Geoff

                    Comment

                    • DrJRapp
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Apr 2003
                      • 1204

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Aussie Geoff
                      Hi,

                      I've moved this to the Audio Hideout where it fits better than Club B&W!

                      Geoff
                      Cool...thanks Geoff, that expands the possible responses. I just want to make comments about what defines a "digital" amp.

                      IMHO the output waveform of the amp defines it's genre. If the output is an analog sine wave it is an analog amp, if the output is a modulated pulse it is digital.
                      Jerry Rappaport

                      Comment

                      • Lex
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Apr 2001
                        • 27461

                        #12
                        glad you found a nice Swedish forum to play in, but you are welcome here anytime.

                        Hey, we aren't always as grumpy as I was. lol. My apologies.

                        Doug
                        Doug
                        "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                        Comment

                        • Karma
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2005
                          • 801

                          #13
                          Originally posted by DrJRapp
                          Cool...thanks Geoff, that expands the possible responses. I just want to make comments about what defines a "digital" amp.

                          IMHO the output waveform of the amp defines it's genre. If the output is an analog sine wave it is an analog amp, if the output is a modulated pulse it is digital.
                          HI Jerry,
                          Please correct me if I'm wrong. If you monitor the outout of either a "digital" amp (I hate that term) or an analog amp with an oscilloscope you will not see a difference. The PWM filtering is accomplished in the amp itself and the output is "analog like".

                          If the amp depended on the speaker to assist in the filtering, the power contained in the high frequency harmonics could overheat the speaker voice coils and/or the crossovers. Further, since the reactive speaker loads vary significantly from model to to model, the amp could not possibly know how effective the filtering would be.

                          I think the hated (me) term "digital amp" must be entirely based upon the Pulse Width Modulation technique that allows the amp to operate in the Class D (switching) mode. But, then again, I may be wrong.

                          Sparky

                          Comment

                          • DrJRapp
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Apr 2003
                            • 1204

                            #14
                            Karma

                            I'm not really sure.
                            Jerry Rappaport

                            Comment

                            • shep
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2004
                              • 105

                              #15
                              Jerry - still preparing that review of the Ref 9?

                              I am looking forward to reading it, and I plan my own A/B comparison with the Rotel RB-1092 (on my B&W 804Ss) when I can get my hands on both.

                              Comment

                              • nfjason
                                Junior Member
                                • Aug 2005
                                • 27

                                #16

                                This is a good tutorial on PWM basics. Pulse width modulation is the basic technique used by switching devices.
                                Some amplifiers (such as D2Audio) take digital data and split them into different range and then amplified the multiple outputs. This allows it to digitally control cross over, add delay for room correction etc. The design usually involve some sort of processor.
                                The purists like Nuforce (and Hypex) use all analog technique to amplifiy the PWM wave form and perform error correction. In our design, we don't rely on externally generated sawtooth waveform. You can read a lot more about our technology on nuforce website. Hypex uses similar principles but the difference (and thus patents ) is in the details.

                                Knowing how to build a good high power amp is more than just knowing how to build a good amp engine. It took us a lot of effort to tune the amp for various power and frequency rating. Going from an amp that measured good to one that sounded world class also took a lot of time. One thing we learn is that if the amp measures good (at all freq, power and load, no cheating here), it will sound pretty near world class standard.

                                Jason, Nuforce

                                Comment

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