DAC-should I get one?

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  • Alaric
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 4143

    DAC-should I get one?

    Hi,all! The more I hear(read) about the improvements a DAC can make the more intrigued I am. I'm currently using a Marantz SA8260 and I'm very happy with the transport,and I tried running the digital out to my amp and wasn't thrilled with the converter in the amp. so I'm running the analog out of the CD player. My amp was a great value/dollar deal (Marantz PM7200) and running it in Class A mode with the direct source signal path produces amazing results for $499.99.I have heard far more expensive amps that didn't provide near the dynamic range or soundstage.Also a lot of headroom for a 25-30 watt. The CD player ,however,is probably two notches up on the amp on the evolutionary scale (probably intelligent design in this case but let's not go there) :nono:
    Anywho,does anyone out there have any experience with this CD player and a DAC or just experience with the subject in general? I want to do a turntable upgrade as well , but I want to finish dialing in the CD player first. The Silvercats let me make a quantum leap in that regard so now I'm on a mission......Thanks for any help,comments,etc...
    Lee

    Marantz PM7200-RIP
    Marantz PM-KI Pearl
    Schiit Modi 3
    Marantz CD5005
    Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
  • Karma
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2005
    • 801

    #2
    HI Alaric,
    On both of my systems I use outboard DAC's. Both of my DAC's, an Anodyne in my main system and a California Audio Labs Sigma II in my bedroom HT system, use a vacuum tube (12AX7) output stage. That was the reason I went to them. I think tubes help reduce some of digital audios worst characteristics. These are a rough and inharmonious top end. Tubes add a touch of warmth to CD's otherwise cold sound.

    Additionally, these DAC's are both very fine pieces with all the characteristics of High End sound. I think the Anodyne has slightly better resolution than the Sigma. I can't say for sure because they exist in totally different systems and I haven't been curious enough to investigate further. I'll get around to it soon, I hope.

    Beyond their touch of tube sound, I can't say for sure that they are better than a fine CD player. I do know I like them a lot.

    Sparky

    Comment

    • Alaric
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Jan 2006
      • 4143

      #3
      Hi,Karma. Thanks for the input.Resolution is definitely a priority for me!I want to hear ALL the info from my source,and if the info sounds like poo I'll listen to better material.I've actually stopped listening to a lot of my "favorite" stuff because it sounds awful on the CDs I originally bought for the wife's car.Granted,some of this may be because of the limits of my player-but probably not many.I wonder if a good DAC will bring back the magic I remember from my viny versions.......? My last system (20 yrs. ago) made some junk LPs sound a lot better. Of course , I was in my twenties and almost everything sounded better than the average home reciever from the mid-eighties.Cerwin Vega was considered high-end in my neighborhood :huh: My Yamaha PX-2 TT was scorned as a waste of money.LOUD equals good and all that stuff...
      Lee

      Marantz PM7200-RIP
      Marantz PM-KI Pearl
      Schiit Modi 3
      Marantz CD5005
      Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

      Comment

      • whoaru99
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2004
        • 638

        #4
        I tried the Benchmark DAC1 but returned it within the money-back period.

        IMO, it improved the sound of some players (that cost less than the DAC), but did not sound as good as some other players (that also cost less than the DAC).

        YMMV...
        There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

        ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

        Comment

        • JKalman
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2005
          • 708

          #5
          Originally posted by Alaric
          Hi,all! The more I hear(read) about the improvements a DAC can make the more intrigued I am. I'm currently using a Marantz SA8260 and I'm very happy with the transport,and I tried running the digital out to my amp and wasn't thrilled with the converter in the amp. so I'm running the analog out of the CD player. My amp was a great value/dollar deal (Marantz PM7200) and running it in Class A mode with the direct source signal path produces amazing results for $499.99.I have heard far more expensive amps that didn't provide near the dynamic range or soundstage.Also a lot of headroom for a 25-30 watt. The CD player ,however,is probably two notches up on the amp on the evolutionary scale (probably intelligent design in this case but let's not go there) :nono:
          Anywho,does anyone out there have any experience with this CD player and a DAC or just experience with the subject in general? I want to do a turntable upgrade as well , but I want to finish dialing in the CD player first. The Silvercats let me make a quantum leap in that regard so now I'm on a mission......Thanks for any help,comments,etc...
          I don't agree with the previous poster at all, and a lot of audio critics don't either. If you can afford to spend $1000, the Benchmark DAC1 is considered one of the best deals on the market, offering high end Digital to Analog Conversion for a small price compared to the quality of sound it produces. You can easily use your Marantz as a transport for it, and because it has a special technology (called UltraLock) that reclocks the word clock, it doesn't matter how crappy your transport is, since it will reclock the signal anyway and still put out top notch audio.

          My own CD player is an Ayre C-5xe Universal Stereo player, but I am probably going to buy a Benchmark DAC1 to listen to music upstairs in bed with headphones, because it is also considered one of the best headphone preamp/amplifiers as well! I've been using my friends off and on for a few months now when he is feeling generous. Like the previous poster said, there is a 30 day trial offer, so it doesn't hurt to try it out and return it if you don't like it.

          I'm personally saving up for an Ayre K-1xe and Ayre V-1xe before I buy my headphones and headphone amp. So once I get all $16k saved up ($9k for the amp and $7k for the preamp), I'll save up for the DAC1 and Sennheiser HD 650 headphones (or the AKG K 701 headphones).

          I highly recommend you read all the reviews on the website below to see what experts in the field think. Like the saying goes, there is no accounting for tastes. Perhaps you will love the DAC1 like me, or not like it, like the previous poster, that is why having a 30 day trial is so useful IMO.

          Here is a link: Benchmark DAC1

          Good luck! :T

          Comment

          • ThomasW
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 10934

            #6
            I've used a Benchmark DAC1 for almost 2yrs and find it an amazing piece of gear for the money. With any CDP I've used it with ($3200 to $99) it's shown brightly. I hope to save enough to buy a second one in the not to distant future.... :T

            IB subwoofer FAQ page


            "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

            Comment

            • JKalman
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2005
              • 708

              #7
              Originally posted by Alaric
              Hi,Karma. Thanks for the input.Resolution is definitely a priority for me!I want to hear ALL the info from my source,and if the info sounds like poo I'll listen to better material.I've actually stopped listening to a lot of my "favorite" stuff because it sounds awful on the CDs I originally bought for the wife's car.Granted,some of this may be because of the limits of my player-but probably not many.I wonder if a good DAC will bring back the magic I remember from my viny versions.......? My last system (20 yrs. ago) made some junk LPs sound a lot better. Of course , I was in my twenties and almost everything sounded better than the average home reciever from the mid-eighties.Cerwin Vega was considered high-end in my neighborhood :huh: My Yamaha PX-2 TT was scorned as a waste of money.LOUD equals good and all that stuff...
              Ah, I remember my first system was a Carver integrated receiver with the Sonic Hologram technology, a Carver CD player and JBL speakers. I spent everyday after school smoking in the horse fields behind my house, then going upstairs, lieing on the bed and listening to Floyd, Hendricks, Grateful Dead, Zeppelin, etc, etc... I remember playing around with my speakers on a weekly basis to experiment with how far apart the soundstage was and the effect it had on my room and on the sound of the musicians. What a blast. Oh well, that system was total crap compared to what I have today. I'm glad I appreciate it through my past experiences.

              If I wanted to listen to vinyl I had to use my parents system which was much better than mine, I had a lot of great Zeppelin bootlegs on Vinyl. :cry:

              Comment

              • whoaru99
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2004
                • 638

                #8
                Originally posted by JKalman
                I highly recommend you read all the reviews on the website below to see what experts in the field think. Like the saying goes, there is no accounting for tastes. Perhaps you will love the DAC1 like me, or not like it, like the previous poster, that is why having a 30 day trial is so useful IMO.

                Here is a link: Benchmark DAC1

                Good luck! :T
                It's not like I didn't like it, I just didn't feel it made enough improvement in all cases to spend $1K on it.

                I've posted this before, but I thought a Music Hall CD-25 had just as "clean" of sound plus had a wider and somewhat deeper soundstage to boot. YMMV...

                If you are in the market, check out the Lavry Engineering DA-10 http://www.lavryengineering.com/index_html.html as well as the Benchmark unit. Comparibly priced and has it's own loyal following but not as widely known since (I think) it's relatively new.

                I may give this one a listen just to balance my perspective a little more.
                There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

                ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

                Comment

                • JKalman
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2005
                  • 708

                  #9
                  Originally posted by whoaru99
                  It's not like I didn't like it, I just didn't feel it made enough improvement in all cases to spend $1K on it.

                  I've posted this before, but I thought a Music Hall CD-25 had just as "clean" of sound plus had a wider and somewhat deeper soundstage to boot. YMMV...

                  If you are in the market, check out the Lavry Engineering DA-10 http://www.lavryengineering.com/index_html.html as well as the Benchmark unit. Comparibly priced and has it's own loyal following but not as widely known since (I think) it's relatively new.

                  I may give this one a listen just to balance my perspective a little more.
                  I'm in the market for a headphone preamp/amplifier with or without a DAC, not for a DAC, which is what got me interested in the DAC1 to begin with. When I am done upgrading components in my audio system I want to get some reference quality headphones, likely the AKG K 701s, and headphone amps for up in my room. The DAC1 happens to be one of the best solutions because it includes a DAC which would save me a lot of money since I won't have to buy a CD player or other source, and can instead use something cheap as a transport. It would be killing two birds with one stone. :T

                  I already purchased an Ayre C-5xe for my universal stereo source in my main system. I fell in love with it a few seconds into the demo at the dealer.

                  Comment

                  • jim777
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 831

                    #10
                    Originally posted by JKalman
                    I'm in the market for a headphone preamp/amplifier with or without a DAC, not for a DAC, which is what got me interested in the DAC1 to begin with.
                    I'm going to have a Rega EAR at work in a few days or weeks so I'll keep you informed.

                    I sent you a P.M. about phones a few days ago BTW.

                    Comment

                    • JKalman
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2005
                      • 708

                      #11
                      Originally posted by jim777
                      I'm going to have a Rega EAR at work in a few days or weeks so I'll keep you informed.

                      I sent you a P.M. about phones a few days ago BTW.
                      Didn't you get my reply message? I sent one days ago! I'll resend it. Hmm, actually I don't see any from you, perhaps it got lost somehow.

                      Definitely keep me updated on the EAR. Is that the 3k+ model or the 5k+ model? LOL The EARs seem a little out of the range I am probably willing to spend on headphone amps/preamps. I only spend big money on my regular system.

                      Comment

                      • JKalman
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 708

                        #12
                        Originally posted by whoaru99
                        It's not like I didn't like it, I just didn't feel it made enough improvement in all cases to spend $1K on it.

                        I've posted this before, but I thought a Music Hall CD-25 had just as "clean" of sound plus had a wider and somewhat deeper soundstage to boot. YMMV...

                        If you are in the market, check out the Lavry Engineering DA-10 http://www.lavryengineering.com/index_html.html as well as the Benchmark unit. Comparibly priced and has it's own loyal following but not as widely known since (I think) it's relatively new.

                        I may give this one a listen just to balance my perspective a little more.
                        I have heard of Lavry though BTW. I was considering getting a DAC instead of a universal or CD player awhile ago and chose to get a Denon DVD-5910 for surround media playback and looked at CD players for awhile but ended up buying the Ayre C-5xe after the demo. I feel the CD playback on the C-5xe is on par with reference CD players twice its price. Ayre really knows how to keep their circuitry and interior component design immaculate, or so it seems considering how great their equipment sounds.

                        I also read about Lavry in Stereophile too I believe and on Audiogon.

                        Comment

                        • NewBuyer
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2005
                          • 122

                          #13
                          You might find some interesting stuff over at www.monarchyaudio.com as well, especially their DAC units with volume control...

                          Comment

                          • JonMarsh
                            Mad Max Moderator
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 15260

                            #14
                            Originally posted by JKalman

                            My own CD player is an Ayre C-5xe Universal Stereo player, but I am probably going to buy a Benchmark DAC1 to listen to music upstairs in bed with headphones, because it is also considered one of the best headphone preamp/amplifiers as well! I've been using my friends off and on for a few months now when he is feeling generous. Like the previous poster said, there is a 30 day trial offer, so it doesn't hurt to try it out and return it if you don't like it.

                            I'm personally saving up for an Ayre K-1xe and Ayre V-1xe before I buy my headphones and headphone amp. So once I get all $16k saved up ($9k for the amp and $7k for the preamp), I'll save up for the DAC1 and Sennheiser HD 650 headphones (or the AKG K 701 headphones).

                            I highly recommend you read all the reviews on the website below to see what experts in the field think. Like the saying goes, there is no accounting for tastes. Perhaps you will love the DAC1 like me, or not like it, like the previous poster, that is why having a 30 day trial is so useful IMO.

                            Here is a link: Benchmark DAC1

                            Good luck! :T
                            Rather agree with you, as I have an Ayre K5 and V5, love the C5xe, but also have a Benchmark DAC1- partly becuase of it's extreme untility- (headphone amp, level control, balanced and unbalanced outputs, etc). Will probably get another for a music server I'm working on.

                            Before you go for the V1xe, you should know they were showing a new monoblock based on the V series technology with significant enhancements (cascoded voltage gain stage, new ThermalTrak output transistors, improved stability compensation for capacitive loads, and a one piece machined chasis that acts as the heatsink. By careful packaging they've eliminated almost all the "air" in side the chasis, so they're quite compact, and sounded very good to my ears in their demo suite. 300 watts at 8 ohms.





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                            Comment

                            • audiofan
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2004
                              • 272

                              #15
                              I am in the same shoe as i'm torned between getting DAC-1 to go with my rotel rcd-1072 or selling rotel rcd-1072 to get a better cdp.

                              Currently, i connect rcd-1072 to MF x10-v3 tube buffer, and then to Plinius 9200. Not that i don't like the sound i have right now, but i want to get the most out of plinius. Totem (i have the Forrest) actually recommend me Plinius cd-101, Ayre cx-5 or cx-7, Rega Apollo. Both plinius cdp and ayre are over my budget. Rega is not what i like and i have never heard of it.

                              Therefore, DAC-1 is another solution which costs me an extra 1k or even lower if i can find used one on A'gon. However, i am sure rcd-1072 + DAC-1 is much better than rcd-1072 + MF x10-v3.

                              Jolida 100A was on my list , but i don't want tube for now.

                              Comment

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