Rotel advice

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  • Alaric
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 4143

    Rotel advice

    I am currently using a Marantz PM7200 integrated amp and am impressed (a lot) with the quality. I've been thinking about the next step up and could use some advice concerning Rotel. My Marantz has a warm,almost tube-like sound with a lot of punch in the mids and especially vocals. I like the overall sound but want "more". Any input would be greatly appreciated.
    Lee

    Marantz PM7200-RIP
    Marantz PM-KI Pearl
    Schiit Modi 3
    Marantz CD5005
    Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
  • Joey_V
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2005
    • 436

    #2
    You looking for 2 channel or HT multichannel amplification? Also, how much are you thinking of spending and what speakers are you trying to power?
    Analog: VPI Scoutmaster w/ Steel Delrin clamp + Dynavector 20XH cart
    Digital: SB3 + PS Audio Digital Link III DAC
    System: Cary Audio SLP-98P Tube Preamplifier w/ Sylvanias -> Plinius SA102 Class A amplifier -> Martin Logan SUMMITS/Strata Minis -> 8O (me)

    Comment

    • Alaric
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Jan 2006
      • 4143

      #3
      This is purely 2 channel. I am driving Paradigm Studio 60 v3's. I'm pretty happy with the sound/dollar ratio.I've heard some systems that cost a bunch more and don't sound as good,but at higher volume levels the Marantz seems to be straining a bit (25wpc in class A). The Rotel based systems I've heard didn't seem to be working as hard as my amp, but I didn't really care for the sound until I heard the 130wpc Rotel. It didn't seem as bright and really handled the bass well. My source is usually a Marantz SA8260. I'm currently waiting for a Music Hall MMF5-SE turntable as I also have vinyl.
      How is Rotel's build quality/reliability? Hopefully my stereo will improve over the years and I don't want to have to keep replacing amps.I'd rather spend future money on speakers and better pre-amp.Unless I win the lottery-then it's Halcro and Watt Puppies all the way!
      Lee

      Marantz PM7200-RIP
      Marantz PM-KI Pearl
      Schiit Modi 3
      Marantz CD5005
      Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

      Comment

      • PewterTA
        Moderator
        • Nov 2004
        • 2901

        #4
        For Purely 2-ch with no intention of HT use later down the line, probably your best combo would be the RC-1070 and RB-1090 if you can can get it, if not, then the RB-1080 is your next best choice.
        Digital Audio makes me Happy.
        -Dan

        Comment

        • Alaric
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Jan 2006
          • 4143

          #5
          thanks. I was thinking the same thing,but $2000 is beyond my budget.(you did ask about that and I neglected to answer-sorry) the biggest hit will be the need for a good preamp. I was lucky enough to hear the Rotel through speakers identical to mine so I'm pretty sure I like the sound of the bigger amps.Shame the smaller(more affordable) ones don't sound quite the same.Gee,better costs more.that should probably not surprise me.
          The RB-1050 sounded very different from the RB-1080;is it just power or do the better/bigger Rotels get other significant circuitry improvements?
          I appreciate the time/input/help.I'm returning to audio after 20 years and losing my Tandberg amp/pre/tuner,NakimichiZX9,ADS L-1530 speakers and much more to an ugly divorce.So much has changed.....Much better quality sound is now available for much less money. Makes it harder! Kid in a candy store syndrome.Thanks again!
          Lee

          Marantz PM7200-RIP
          Marantz PM-KI Pearl
          Schiit Modi 3
          Marantz CD5005
          Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

          Comment

          • gd
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2003
            • 583

            #6
            Your Marantz is no slouch.

            Considering you like the sound, how about keeping it as a pre, and adding only a power amp for now?... best of both worlds -- a signature sound you already like, with more control of it exerted over the speakers... upgrade the pre later.

            Furthermore, power amp is the one component you can buy used and feel good about... there is a marketplace section ('Pawn Shop') on this site, and Audiogon is a pretty good bet as well... a used power amp can be a real bang-for-the-buck purchase... lotsa Rotels on A-gon... you might even see fit to step up a notch.

            Happy hunting.
            .
            greg (gd to you)
            .
            Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring
            production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid.

            Frank Zappa

            Comment

            • Alaric
              Ultra Senior Member
              • Jan 2006
              • 4143

              #7
              Thanks. Yeah,I really do like the PM7200. It almost has a McIntosh-like sound quality.With the obvious stretch for poetic license! I will indeed check out the pawn shop here.My main worry about buying used is buying another's headache,but there is probably a good chance $2000 amplifiers were loved and respected by their owners.BTW,if anyone is looking at CD players I heartily recommend the Marantz SA8260. For SACD it is the deal of the century. For redbook CDs I did an A/B with a Music Hall Maverick and preferred the Marantz. There are somewhat better sounding CD players but you'll pay upwards of 3X the cost of the SA8260 before sound quality and not preference is the difference. It also plays multi-channel and stereo SACD well enough to be hard to beat regardless of cost. As good as the PM7200 amp is,this CD player finds the areas it comes up a little short.It also points out CDs that are sub-par so audition material you KNOW is well produced and recorded.Thanks, againand I'm sure I'll be back for advice&input on potential bargains on used amps.Maybe an RB-1090.... :T
              Lee

              Marantz PM7200-RIP
              Marantz PM-KI Pearl
              Schiit Modi 3
              Marantz CD5005
              Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

              Comment

              • Joey_V
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2005
                • 436

                #8
                I bought my RB1070 used from ebay about 7 months ago and it's been fine ever since. I was about to jump on a forum deal with a 1090 but something took me out financially out of the audio game for a month and it wasnt meant to be. The Rotel 1090 used @ about $1300 shipped is a very good deal. A used 1080, I would be a little leary since many have posted about fuse problems down at the Club Rotel forum. The 1070 hasnt had any recurring problems that I've experienced or read about.

                I also bought my RC1070 used and it's an awesome preamp. Probably not as good as the 1090, but I wanted something simple.
                Analog: VPI Scoutmaster w/ Steel Delrin clamp + Dynavector 20XH cart
                Digital: SB3 + PS Audio Digital Link III DAC
                System: Cary Audio SLP-98P Tube Preamplifier w/ Sylvanias -> Plinius SA102 Class A amplifier -> Martin Logan SUMMITS/Strata Minis -> 8O (me)

                Comment

                • BTB
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 198

                  #9
                  Hi Alaric

                  I sold my PM 7200 about three months ago and after a short wait took delivery of Rotel RC 1070 and RB 1070 seperates. Like you I enjoyed the sound of the Marantz but also wanted "more". Specifically, better bass control and perhaps even a bit more headroom in the volume dept. when I felt like it. One of my biggest gripes with the Marantz was it's very limited "grunt" and the early onset of hardness characteristic of the early stages of clipping.

                  I've been pleased with the changes that the Rotel has made to a modest set up consisting of an Arcam CD73T and B&W 704's. The sound is alot less "fuzzy" definitely more a transistor sound than the "valve" sound you refer to. Bass is tighter,leaner and quicker, which I've come to prefer over the thick, slower sounding bass I had with the 7200.

                  BUT. I'm currently on the verge of selling the power amp. Maybe all in the mind, but I reckon the bigger 1080 power will do a better job with the B&W's. I guess I didn't realise that the jump (in loudness specifically) between the 95w rated Marantz and the 130w rated Rotel would not be all that impressive. If increased loudness is of no concern to you and the changes/improvements I've mentioned are what you're after then you could do alot worse than Rotel seperates.

                  Comment

                  • whoaru99
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 638

                    #10
                    Originally posted by BTB
                    I guess I didn't realise that the jump (in loudness specifically) between the 95w rated Marantz and the 130w rated Rotel would not be all that impressive. If increased loudness is of no concern to you and the changes/improvements I've mentioned are what you're after then you could do alot worse than Rotel seperates.
                    Yes, this is a point that is often mis-understood. When using the same set of speakers (or others of like efficiency), it will require an amp of 10X power increase to sound twice as loud. So, in the case of the Marantz, if it's 95wpc, it will require 950wpc to sound twice as loud.

                    Of course, you will see benefits from increased headroom at "normal" playing levels from an amp with less than 10x power increase, but purely from a volume perspective, that's what it takes.

                    Just my .02, but I probably would not upgrade purely based on "watts" unless you go at least twice what you have. Again, just my .02...
                    There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

                    ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

                    Comment

                    • grit
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2005
                      • 580

                      #11
                      Watts really mean one thing : power to drive the speaker. No matter how good the amp, if it does not have enough power to drive the speaker (based on the speaker's efficiency), it'll sound thin. Once you reach enough power to drive your speakers, the next thing you'll notice is how various brands of amps control the speakers and what signature they impart on the sound. Classe's 100 wpc sounds more detailed than Rotels 125 wpc, but both amps drive a given speaker about as well.

                      Comment

                      • Alaric
                        Ultra Senior Member
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 4143

                        #12
                        BTB,glad you experienced my amp!

                        Yeah,watts look good on paper,but the hard numbers are about as useful as going by THD percentages (within reason).I stated my perceptions poorly.It is indeed headroom differences I noticed between the bigger Rotels and my amp.At low to medium volume levels I prefer my PM7200 over most everything until we get into BIG money.The efficiency of the Paradigms also allows the 25wpc Class A circuit to really "sing",providing detail and a remarkably "black" background. The slightly harsh response at higher line output levels is the only drawback I've found. The performance of my budget system with material like Natalie Merchant's remastered Break Your Heart (horns especially) is about as good as it's gonna get for $3200,including CD player and a little extra for the cherry finish on the speakers.I won't include the cost of the Silvercat interconnects because they became a necessity 30 seconds after hooking them up. The remastered "Jealousy" (also NM) is also a good bet with my current set-up.
                        You notice the amp likes female vocals (and Ozzy Osbourne!)? The snare drums are crisp,the guitar riffs are clean,and the Paradigms deliver pretty decent clarity.I also have to be careful about volume-clean sound doesn't sound "loud" until the neighbors come over to ask what I'm playing!
                        It seems the bigger Rotels carry the bass and lower mids better at higher line output levels.Again,at low to moderate volume levels this amp really does a great job. If I take it out of Class A (25wpc to 95wpc) I get a tad more headroom but lose some of the definition-the "edges" don't sound quite as clean.Does that make sense? Anyway,I'm not chained to Rotel,just the only "affordable" alternative I've heard so far.I'm open to suggestions...I just want to be able to audition amps with my speakers.Not everything likes Paradigms,and a marginally "bright" amp makes them sound like a 5000 watt mono system.Since convincing the wife that $1600.00 worth of speakers need to be upgraded will be a large job (she's tone deaf-literally) I'm looking for an amp w/the same "type" sound that will work w/a speaker upgrade down the road.Gee,I don't want much,do I? All I need is one winning lottery ticket........then it's von Schweikerts and Halcro....or Wilson Alexandrias....
                        Thanks for all the input,folks.I really appreciate the friendly attitude of this forum.Thanks to Lex and the moderators for keeping it that way.
                        Lee

                        Marantz PM7200-RIP
                        Marantz PM-KI Pearl
                        Schiit Modi 3
                        Marantz CD5005
                        Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

                        Comment

                        • Alaric
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Jan 2006
                          • 4143

                          #13
                          BTB,I forgot to ask-what speakers are you driving with the Rotel (previously the Marantz?)Thanks again!
                          Lee

                          Marantz PM7200-RIP
                          Marantz PM-KI Pearl
                          Schiit Modi 3
                          Marantz CD5005
                          Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

                          Comment

                          • BTB
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 198

                            #14
                            Post re-written

                            Hi Alaric...

                            To answer your last question... I use B&W 704's. Pretty power hungry despite good rated sensitivity (90dB 1w, recommended power handling 50-150w). Sound really good and beautifully built. And by all accounts a good match for Rotel amps considering that B&W uses Rotels (amongst other brands [like Classe]) in their R&D.

                            I know EXACTLY what you mean about the "edges" of sounds being a bit poorly defined at volume, one of the things I prefer about these Rotels I've bought... a bit less "soft focus". Like you said though, Rotels are good value for money in what is essentially a difficult price range to shop in... for this kind of money it's clearly a toss up between high powered "mid-fi" (like Rotel) or entry level offerings from more heavyweight contenders... for instance Naim, Primare or Arcam. One thing all those entry level amps have in common though is low(er) power output and therefore become tricky to use with speakers like mine, in a big room, like mine.

                            If your speakers a really efficient, try out something like the Naim Nait 5i integrated, pretty grunty and sounds fantastic... very forthright, tightly focussed and really involving to listen to. I would've bought one if not for my chosen speaker constraints, I am a bit of a (hooked) B&W fan I'm afraid. But I don't feel like I'm missing out too badly at the moment. I can't think of anything that sounds as "analogue" as that Marantz, maybe check out something from the Arcam Diva range. Might well sound a bit more "focussed" while retaining some of the Marantz charms.

                            Let me know how things turn out if you try them out.
                            Good luck. :P
                            Last edited by BTB; 10 February 2006, 01:54 Friday. Reason: wanted to re-write reply

                            Comment

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