looking for Warm sounding SS preamp

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  • tboooe
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2005
    • 657

    looking for Warm sounding SS preamp

    Hi, i am looking to upgrade my current pre-amp. I would like to get a solid state preamp that has more of a warm sound to it. I would also like a preamp that does a very good job of soundstaging. I listen to a lot of female vocalists and would like to get a more musical, emotional preamp.

    My price range is $2K -$4k.

    Any suggestions?
  • jclyle
    Member
    • Feb 2005
    • 31

    #2
    it sounds like you may want to try a tube pre-amp... I suggest a Rogue 66, they got for about 600 used on Audiogon & you could re-sell for about the same price if you didnt like it.

    Comment

    • tboooe
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2005
      • 657

      #3
      thansks for the response. I would like to avoid tubes and all of the issues that come with them.

      Comment

      • LikeCoiledSteel
        Senior Member
        • May 2004
        • 210

        #4
        I have heard that the DAC 1 works as an excellent preamp, eliminating 1 more component and has a warm sound.
        Steel

        Comment

        • Bob
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2000
          • 802

          #5
          I would like to avoid tubes and all of the issues that come with them.
          Do you mean having to bias them and buy new tubes every year or two? Because neither are a issue with tube pre amps. Those are tube amp issues. Tubes in pre amps don't need to be biased and they last for thousands of hours, plus, if you want or need to change them there is only a few to buy and they aren't expensive.
          The Rogue suggestion is a good one but, if you really want a warm sound then you should give one of the Conrad Johnson preamps a listen.
          If you really are insistant about staying with SS, listen to a Ayre preamp and then find a used one in your price range. While not as warm as any of the CJ gear, I find them pleasantly on the warm side of nuetral.

          Comment

          • Karma
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2005
            • 801

            #6
            HI,
            Define "warm" for us please.

            Sparky

            Comment

            • GregLett
              Senior Member
              • May 2005
              • 753

              #7
              Originally posted by tboooe
              thansks for the response. I would like to avoid tubes and all of the issues that come with them.
              I own a PrimaLuna Tube pre-amp no issues, no problems, no adjustments.
              Greg

              Comment

              • tboooe
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2005
                • 657

                #8
                Bob, I must admit, that I do not know too much about tubes and my aversion to them is mainly due to ignorance rather than real experience. All of the things you mentioned are concerns but if they are only related to tube amps then I will catiously be open to the idea of a tube preamp.

                Karma, by warm I mean a full bodied, rich sound that is laid back vs a sound that is sterile and too detailed. I am looking for a romantic sound that is sweet and musical. I am not sure if that makes any sense but I know the sound when I hear it.

                GregLett, can you describe to me the sound you get with the primaluna? what other components do you have?

                Comment

                • GregLett
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2005
                  • 753

                  #9
                  Karma, by warm I mean a full bodied, rich sound that is laid back vs a sound that is sterile and too detailed. I am looking for a romantic sound that is sweet and musical. I am not sure if that makes any sense but I know the sound when I hear it.


                  Makes perfect sense to me! That's exactly what I was after.
                  Greg

                  Comment

                  • ThomasW
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 10934

                    #10
                    Look at the non-global feedback solid state units. They have the most tube like characteristics with the zero maintenance and high reliability inherent in SS gear.

                    I use an Ayre K5xe.

                    Another option is products that use class "A" circuit topology. The only downside to these is that they run as hot as tubes.

                    IB subwoofer FAQ page


                    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                    Comment

                    • GregLett
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2005
                      • 753

                      #11
                      Originally posted by
                      GregLett
                      can you describe to me the sound you get with the primaluna? what other components do you have?
                      tboooe,

                      The sound is very inviting. It's as you described it in your post. I found that after listening to Solid State gear I was
                      a little fatigued. I've always heard that tubes were warm but like you I wanted no part
                      of the constant tweaking of tubes that I always heard about.

                      My first experience with tube gear was with the Musical Fidelity KW500 Integrated amp, which is a hybrid design
                      Tube front SS amp. The second was with the PrimaLuna Proluge two integrated amp,
                      that one of my listening buddies purchased. Once I heard that amp, and learned that there
                      was no Tube adjustment involved, (due to the auto bias circuitry) I wanted to have tube gear.

                      I chose to go the Hybrid route tube front end/SS power. I replaced my Rotel RCD-1072 and
                      RC-1090 with the Jolida-100 and the PrimaLuna Proluge Three PreAmp. I still have my Rotel
                      amp, but not for long. Hope this helps.



                      :lol:
                      Greg

                      Comment

                      • Karma
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 801

                        #12
                        HI tboooe,
                        Thanks. Now I have an idea that you have an idea of what you are after. I have not heard all that's out there by any means. But I do have a lot experience with both tubes and SS.

                        In my view you want tubes. As others have said, tube preamps are much more forgiving than power amps. I wont call them zero maintenance but other than the occasional bad tube, they pretty much are. Preamp tubes usually last a long time, are cheap, available and easy to replace. I would avoid preamps that use Nuvistor tubes because they are getting hard to find. That's too bad because they are wonderful tubes.

                        I think the sound you describe that you want is only available with tubes. And that's good because tubes sound great. Conrad Johnson is a good suggestion. If you are willing to do a little searching early Audio Research preamps are very warm; much more so than their newer designs. I would suggest the SP 4 or SP 5 as having, in spades, the type of sound you are looking for. Check out Audiogon as a good source for used preamps.

                        Sparky

                        Comment

                        • Spearmint
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2004
                          • 333

                          #13
                          I have just recently bought and installed a Pimare Pre30 for my setup.

                          When I was looking for a new pre one of the things I noticed was the physical size of some of the units. Most would not fit into my rack because they were too wide.

                          There were a couple of features that I required; these were a remote control volume and input selector, plus HT bypass.

                          It could be worth checking one out if you have a dealer near by!
                          Last edited by Spearmint; 19 January 2006, 20:20 Thursday.
                          Richard

                          "Sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission... "

                          Comment

                          • NMyTree
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2004
                            • 520

                            #14
                            Balanced Audio Technology has some real nice tubed pre amps. The VK-3ix is a real nice pre, for a reasonable price.

                            They also have a new solid state pre amp, the VK-42SE (don't know the price).




                            Then there's also Ayre. They have the K-5xe Preamplifier (solid state) which is a wonderful pre amp ( I think around the $3,000 price point).
                            Tony

                            Comment

                            • misterdoggy
                              Super Senior Member
                              • May 2005
                              • 1418

                              #15
                              tbooe

                              did you ever find a warm sounding amp. I am thinking the same thing. My sound is a little on the bright side and I would like to "influence" it a bit and was thinking about preamp somewhere either before or after the Processor.

                              what are your experiences ?

                              Comment

                              • tboooe
                                Senior Member
                                • Jun 2005
                                • 657

                                #16
                                misterdoggy, i have auditioned several and so far i like the ayre k-1xe and plinius m8. both very smooth and slightly on the warm side of neutral. i also tried tube preamps and i felt that they were too warm and veiled for my liking. let me know if you would like more detail.

                                Comment

                                • Karma
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2005
                                  • 801

                                  #17
                                  HI tboooe,
                                  May I say that when you say that the tube equipment you have auditioned are veiled that tells me that you have not looked hard enough. My impression is that you simply don't want tubes, period. I say this because the finest, most open, highest resolution, most beautiful sound I have ever heard come from tubes. It's true that SOME tubes can sound the way you describe. I don't like them either. But the best of tubes represent hi fi at its finest, IMO. You are too quick to draw a stereotype as though all tubes sound the same. That simply reveals a lack of interest because it is not true.

                                  You just don't want tubes. But you should because that's the only way you are going to get the sound you have described.

                                  Sparky

                                  Comment

                                  • tboooe
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jun 2005
                                    • 657

                                    #18
                                    hey karma, now you are making generalizations. all i was saying was of the tube stuff i have heard i do not like them. of course there are more options out there and i hope to hear some more. believe me i am not a solid state elitist. i will buy whatever components provide me with the sound i am after. as i said in this thread, i am absolutely ignorant of tubes so bear with me as i learn about them.

                                    Comment

                                    • Karma
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Nov 2005
                                      • 801

                                      #19
                                      HI tboooe,
                                      How am I making generalizations?

                                      Sparky

                                      Comment

                                      • RebelMan
                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                        • Mar 2005
                                        • 3139

                                        #20
                                        tboooe, when you auditioned the Ayre K-1xe and Plinius m8 what type of speakers were used and which Classe's pre did you demo and the speakers used for it? Have you been able to pair any of these pre-amps with speakers similar to your 804S's?
                                        "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

                                        Comment

                                        • tboooe
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jun 2005
                                          • 657

                                          #21
                                          rebelman, I heard the ayre on 802D at the dealer and the plinius on my home setup. The Classe setup was also on the 802D but it was in a different listening room so I am sure there were many variables (room treatment, speaker placement, room size, etc) that could have caused my initial impression of the classe to be thin. The pre was the cp-500. I did not really get to spend a lot of time critically listening to the classe as i was in a hurry. I intend to go back to this dealer when I have more time. I will also plan on eliminating as many variables as possible when I compare the ayre to the classe. I will let you know what I find out.

                                          Comment

                                          • eddiem67
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Jun 2004
                                            • 139

                                            #22
                                            Manley Labs Snapper
                                            My Car Audio

                                            Comment

                                            • tboooe
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jun 2005
                                              • 657

                                              #23
                                              eddiem67: thanks for the tip. Very interesting company indeed. Do you have this preamp?

                                              Comment

                                              • eddiem67
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Jun 2004
                                                • 139

                                                #24
                                                actually its one of the line I offer (oops, did I just say that), they are just awesome amps, very good with speakers with a stable impedance.
                                                My Car Audio

                                                Comment

                                                • eddiem67
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Jun 2004
                                                  • 139

                                                  #25
                                                  The Steelhead pre-amp is a real nice piece of equipment
                                                  My Car Audio

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Gump
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Sep 2005
                                                    • 522

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by ThomasW
                                                    Look at the non-global feedback solid state units. They have the most tube like characteristics with the zero maintenance and high reliability inherent in SS gear.

                                                    I use an Ayre K5xe.

                                                    Another option is products that use class "A" circuit topology. The only downside to these is that they run as hot as tubes.
                                                    Pardon my ignorance,,,What is a non-global feedback solid state unit?

                                                    Comment

                                                    • RebelMan
                                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                      • 3139

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Gump
                                                      Pardon my ignorance,,,What is a non-global feedback solid state unit?
                                                      It is a technique SS amplifier manufacturers use to curb distortion and stablize the circuit. They take part of the output signal and send it back to the amplifier's input. It is also referred to as negative feedback or just feedback. This method, unfortunately, comes with a price which usually means musicallity may suffer.
                                                      "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Eliav
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jul 2005
                                                        • 484

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by tboooe
                                                        misterdoggy, i have auditioned several and so far i like the ayre k-1xe and plinius m8. both very smooth and slightly on the warm side of neutral. i also tried tube preamps and i felt that they were too warm and veiled for my liking. let me know if you would like more detail.
                                                        Hi
                                                        I am auditioning stereo pre amps nowdays. I have the Classe cam400 which have a silky- warm sound, I am considering the CP500 pre amp (3500$) vs the cp700 ( 7000$ :M ), Classe gear has that non-harsh airy-detailed sound. I would give it an audition.
                                                        Eliav
                                                        :T Socrat

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Gump
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Sep 2005
                                                          • 522

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by RebelMan
                                                          It is a technique SS amplifier manufacturers use to curb distortion and stablize the circuit. They take part of the output signal and send it back to the amplifier's input. It is also referred to as negative feedback or just feedback. This method, unfortunately, comes with a price which usually means musicallity may suffer.

                                                          Thank you, sir.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • RenoReno2
                                                            Member
                                                            • Jan 2005
                                                            • 82

                                                            #30
                                                            B&K ref 50 s2 sounds pretty good

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Ultrasonic
                                                              Junior Member
                                                              • Feb 2006
                                                              • 10

                                                              #31
                                                              I was in the same situatiion with my Musical Fidelity/B&W setup so i added one of these :T

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                                                              Not only did it add warmth and body to the sound the soundstage was vastly widened. It is one of the most musical DAC's around regardless of cost, the guy who sold it to me had to upgrade to DCS/Wadia territory to better it.

                                                              Cheers
                                                              Ultra
                                                              Last edited by theSven; 08 June 2023, 16:39 Thursday. Reason: Update image location

                                                              Comment

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