What do you Gentlemen think about this?

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  • GregLett
    Senior Member
    • May 2005
    • 753

    What do you Gentlemen think about this?

    " Trying to get the best bass and the best imaging from the same speaker is like chasing a mirage in the desert. You may think that you are close, but you'll never arrive. I gave up trying to do this years ago when I discovered the benefits of removing the bass energy from "full range" speakers and redirecting it to a pair of good subwoofers. A true high-end audio system requires the use of two amplified subwoofers."


    He suggested using a sub designed for music playback, not movie playback.
    Greg
  • Bob
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2000
    • 802

    #2
    Sometimes true, depending on speakers and room. I know Richard Hardesty thinks along those lines for some situations. I tried it and found the real problem was the room. Once that was fixed, I found no advantage to the subs.

    Comment

    • wildfire99
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2005
      • 257

      #3
      I'm not a gentleman, but I do agree with the statement (to a degree).

      The bass was far better on my system using a sub, even though the mains were rated to 35hz (ported - F3 of 40hz). Using a single, dare I say it, home theater oriented sub (a single Tempest in the Adire vented Alignment), the bass was tighter, more engaging, and far more "musical".

      My next setup will be truly full range 3-way towers, with an F3 of 25hz or below (anechoic). I will still use a sub, and probably cross it over at 60hz or so or less. The idea is headroom, and letting drivers coast instead of pushing them hard, I think.

      I'm not sold on the idea of stereo subs. I co-locate my pair for output, and they are non-locatable anyway.
      - Patrick
      "But it's more fun when it doesn't make sense!"

      Comment

      • gianni
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2002
        • 524

        #4
        I too prefer using a sub. I find I can place the mains for best imaging etc., and put the sub where it delivers the best bass. I have no issues with localization. You would swear the bass is coming from the mains. In my case I find this gives me the most flexibility and really allows me to fine tune the placement for optimum results.

        Comment

        • GregLett
          Senior Member
          • May 2005
          • 753

          #5
          Before reading the article, I balked at the thought of using a sub for music. That was
          mainly due to the setups I've heard. The article discussed many of the problems of
          using just any sub for music, and how they were addressed. It's definitely something
          I will consider in the future.
          Greg

          Comment

          • bigburner
            Super Senior Member
            • May 2005
            • 2649

            #6
            Can anyone point us to the original article?

            Comment

            • GregLett
              Senior Member
              • May 2005
              • 753

              #7
              Here's the link.

              Greg

              Comment

              • Bob
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2000
                • 802

                #8
                I thought this was probably the article you were refering to. I have been to Richard's house several times. First when he still had the 3A sigs with two 2wq's for his front speakers and also since he switched to the 5A's. Since I travel for work alot, I have visited many, many showrooms and audiophile rooms across the country, as well as in Europe, China, and Japan. I have yet to hear anything that comes close to Richard's room, except one dealer in Monrovia, CA. And I emphasize room, not components. You would be hard pressed to find very many people that have speant as much time as he has trying to understand how to use a sub for music purposes.
                While audio "rules" never apply to all situations, they are usually good starting points. I think the main problem with Dick's journal on subs is that he should have speant more time explaining what to expect for your investment in two subs. Especially the 2wq. I think most people adding a sub are expecting that they will now have thounderous live rock and roll style bass, at least I did. That isn't the goal that is being discussed in the journal. Like many equipment upgrades, adding two subs with external crossovers may seem like a very subtle difference that isn't worth while. I thought so because I didn't know what the goal was. Which is for the bass to sound like the musical instrument that was recorded. Not to make the bass louder or add boom like the LFE channel in a HT.
                My room is almost a perfect square and had a bass suckout right at the sitting area. Folowing Dick's advice helped very little with this problem. Following his advice on room acoustics and then working in the subs made a bigger difference than any component change I have ever tried. I can't say I ever really gave the subs a fair trial though because right after finally getting the acoustics improved I switched to speakers with a powered sub built in and with adjustable room eq built in.
                I'm not discounting his advice, just think that, when possible, adjusting the room acoustics should come first.

                Comment

                • ajpoe
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 439

                  #9
                  I have to agree. I use Studio 60s for my fronts which reach down to around 30 Hz. I have MUCH better sound when running them around 80 Hz and up and letting my two 15" subs handle the low end work vs. the Studio 60s full range and no sub.
                  AJPoe - - Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!

                  Comment

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