Objective Reviews. Do they exist??

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  • Markmm
    Junior Member
    • Nov 2005
    • 29

    Objective Reviews. Do they exist??

    Has anyone found a site/magazine which truly does objective reviews? I've been hunting around at tons of review sites (Secrets HTHIFI, Audioholics, UltimateAV, and more..) and according to them, every product is wonderful and should be bought. I'd like to find one that is willing to say, "Don't buy this one, buy this instead."
  • Bob
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2000
    • 802

    #2
    Depends on what you mean by objective. If you mean uncolored by personal preference, no. Because audio preference is mainly subjective. If you mean uncolored by not being concerened with advertisement revenue or product discounts, yes.
    The Audioperfectionist. But, you have to start with journal 1 and read from there to understand where the two writers are comming from. Since their objective is to help a audiophile purchase a good system once without continous upgrades the journals require a certain amount of bias. But, the bias is based on both reasoned, personal experience, and measurements. Not on trying to gain favor with a manufacturer. Also, they are not afraid to give negative reveiws. Which people think they want until a piece of audio gear they own is the one given the negative reveiw.
    Also, they give a fair explanation as to why you may want to consider a piece of gear that they don't reccomend. Ex., when giving a overveiw of speakers they give a good explanation of how various speaker types work, planer, electrostat, horn, etc. Then state their preference and why. They also make it clear that it is o'k with them if your personal preference is different.
    Because they don't accept adds, or gifts, and because they aren't afraid to say why they don't like something, you can't expect to read about large quantities of gear. But, going back to the original premise of buying once and being satisfied, you don't need to read about everything that exists.
    Richard often comes accross as pretty cranky in his writings. Which is surprising since in person he is a very cheerful even keeled guy. But, he doesn't tolerate snake oil salesman and that puts him at odds with many in the audio review community. And, unlike 99.9% of the reveiwers out there he actually has some sort of credentials. Engineer, musician, and used to have one of the most successful audio stores in S. Calif. so knows the players. Which means he knows who's the real deal and who's just a financier.
    Here is another site that might be more your cup of tea:

    I haven't fully explored it yet so, don't know if the reveiwers are worth paying attention to. Remember what they say about reviewers and critics, "All it takes to be one is to get hired." Doesn't mean you know squat about what you are criticizing or reviewing.

    Comment

    • aphexist
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2004
      • 158

      #3
      The reasons you won't get a "real" review in a glossy mag:

      Reviewers don't buy the equipment. They are sent review samples from the manufacturer with the "understanding" that the reviewer will use favorable language and the good comments will ultimately outweigh the bad; flaws will be glossed over. To reward the publication for this, the manufacturer may buy advertising space in the pages.

      Your best bet may be reading sites like this. This system has its own problems because most stereo consumers don't base their critical listening on comparison or measurement. First time buyers have no basis of comparison, so anything will sound wonderful. If a consumer has just spent their dollars on an expensive piece of equipment, few are clear-headed or humble enough to admit that they are displeased with the sound or value of the product. They want to be lauded for their wise equipment choices or the "great deal" they found.

      The gems to be discovered in audio reviews can be found in unaffilated and seasoned veterans of the hobby. Their systems mix brands, don't subscribe to snake oil, they aren't brand loyal, and their language is descriptive in scientific rather than nebulous terms such as "bright", "delicate", or "detailed."

      When you find a well-written review like this, you have found something worth acknowledging.

      Comment

      • Bob
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2000
        • 802

        #4
        If a consumer has just spent their dollars on an expensive piece of equipment, few are clear-headed or humble enough to admit that they are displeased with the sound or value of the product. They want to be lauded for their wise equipment choices or the "great deal" they found.
        Truer words seldom appear in a forum. This is almost always true no matter how experienced the audiophile is. "What ever I own is best and you should buy it also." Is the theme of probably 90% of all threads.

        Comment

        • Andrew M Ward
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2005
          • 717

          #5
          Originally posted by Bob
          Truer words seldom appear in a forum. This is almost always true no matter how experienced the audiophile is. "What ever I own is best and you should buy it also." Is the theme of probably 90% of all threads.

          You solve this problem by owning as much "different" gear as possible.

          Comment

          • george_k
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2004
            • 342

            #6
            I think a lot of reviews are masters at beating around the bush when reviewing a component. Often times they'll use fancy words which I seldom come across in my day-to-day world. I think the best thing you could do is educate yourself as much as possible so that you can become a better critic of what your reading.

            Just yesterday I was looking for good technical reviews about the squeezebox. I was looking for information about the quality of it's analog outputs and here is one of the reviews I came across (what I would consider a model for a poor review)



            The author basically recites the same product information found on the slimdevices website. Next he compares the product to the sonos player and says it is inferior to the sonos remote (what he doesn't say is that the sonos remote alone costs more than the entire squeezebox package and is sold seperately)

            There isn't even a hint of technical information sprinkled in the article yet he gives it a 9/10...thanks Will Smith you helped me make an informed choice.

            PS: I ended up buying one anways...but no thanks to will ;-)

            Comment

            • wildfire99
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2005
              • 257

              #7
              Until people have a way to get products to review without being dependent upon the manufacturers sending them free product, there will never be wide-spread, truly independent reviews.

              The magazines depend on people reading the reviews to make money. The reviewers depend on the manufacturers to send them products to review. The manufacturers depend on people buying their product based on a good review to make money. Is there any bias there at all?

              The review issue is problematic even for private party reviews. Let's face it guys, the art of audiophilia is pretty well advanced these days. Whatever you buy, as long as it can physically provide the desired result, will probably sound pretty good (I'm thinking here of the exception of some Bose 2 speaker "surround sound" setup I saw on TV recently). It's no surprise that the majority of people will find whatever gear they happen to have to sound "good". After all, what are they comparing it to? Silence? "Product X's musical abilities sounded far better than the ambient hum of my air conditioning system. 10 stars!"

              What does the average joe compare their system to, megabuck or not? If you're lucky, they have some last-generation receiver still around, and can make comparisons to a (relatively) obsolete piece of equipment. Whoopie! On the other hand, people who are fortunate enough to have a lot of equipment on hand to demo against each other (read: dealers) are always lambasted for having a personal interest. And that's likely true.

              So what is a review-deprived audiophile to do? Some of them go above and beyond and organize listening sessions. They dare to say that their $50 Radio Shack boombox plays CD's nearly as well as some other guy's megabuck Rega Planet player, according to group vote. But no! The group wasn't blind! They didn't calibrate their levels! For shame, it was a skewed result.

              <soapbox>
              No matter what you do, you can't get away from the fact that people are people, and that means that things are flawed. Though it's difficult to truly embrace, I try nowadays to recognize that anything in my system will nearly always sound better than silence. And in fact, that it will probably sound decent enough that I have to sit down and examine the audio (e.g. not enjoy it) to hear the difference. Yes, I chase the white rabbit of reviews occasionally, but it never helps me to enjoy my system any more. I have never purchased one piece of equipment, then another, and said, "My God! This is unbeleiveable! It's like Zeus himself has come down and let me borrow his stereo!" It sounds good enough.

              If I have to choose between several similar options, then I do fret about reviews. But if I need a squeezebox, then I either need it or I don't. The quality is probably decent, and if it's not, then I return it and complain loudly on many forums. And the wheel turns. The only thing I really do wish would stop are the sci-fi hokum treatments, like the quantum disc cleanser thing. I've seen the same device in many fields claimed to do many things that just don't work except by the (newly motivated) actions of the owner.
              </soapbox>

              One of my long-term goals is still to find a method of doing unbiased comparisons and reviews of products. The only way I have of doing that now is by winning the lottery, and purchasing them all myself. Otherwise, I feel that psychology is our first and foremost enemy (as stated in this thread already), and greed/self-interest only second.
              - Patrick
              "But it's more fun when it doesn't make sense!"

              Comment

              • Karma
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2005
                • 801

                #8
                Reviews and Their Limits

                HI All,
                I have known and participated in equipment evaluations with many professional audio reviewers because of where I live and with whom I hang out. I won't mention names but you would recognize many of them. I have come to some conclusions about them and myself.
                1. Experienced reviewers generally have great ears, much better than average. The best reviewers have vast experience which gives their views weight. They are very opinionated and take reviewing seriously.
                2. All reviewers have personal preferences. Some like tubes; some solid state, etc. We should learn our reviewers preferences.
                3. Mags have to make money through their advertisers. Bad reviews tend to loose advertisers. Mags try to avoid this.
                4. Reviewers must establish and maintain credibility both with the public and their peers.
                5. A reviewers reference system is comprised of equipment they like.
                6. Manufacturers provide equipment to the reviewer for review. Many times there is an unspoken agreement that the reviewer may keep positively reviewed equipment on extended loan. Therefore,
                7. Most reviewers do not own their reference system.
                8. It is OK if the reviewer has an informal loan arrangement with the manufacturer. It simply the means the reviewer really likes the equipment and maybe the public would too.
                9. New reviewers have less expensive and less capable reference systems than the old dogs. It takes years to build the contacts necessary to accumulate a reference system comprised of top line equipment. This doesn't mean the new reviewer is less talented though they tend to be more limited and grasp onto sonic features that they will eventually tire of.
                10. All mags and reviewers develop a language that subtlely conveys their opinions without overtly stating it unless the piece is really garbage or outstandingly great. We, their readers, must learn the language. Therefore,
                11. The reader should try to stick with one mag and their reviewers long enough to learn their particular language and tastes.

                The bottom line is we should not accept the reviewers word as the last word. It is our responsibility to become better critical listeners. We should take every opportunity to listen to new equipment in our own listening environment. The more we do this, the better we can triangulate the reviewers opinions and tastes with our own.

                Sparky

                Comment

                • Snap
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Feb 2005
                  • 1295

                  #9
                  Originally posted by aphexist
                  If a consumer has just spent their dollars on an expensive piece of equipment, few are clear-headed or humble enough to admit that they are displeased with the sound or value of the product. They want to be lauded for their wise equipment choices or the "great deal" they found.

                  The gems to be discovered in audio reviews can be found in unaffilated and seasoned veterans of the hobby. Their systems mix brands, don't subscribe to snake oil, they aren't brand loyal, and their language is descriptive in scientific rather than nebulous terms such as "bright", "delicate", or "detailed."

                  When you find a well-written review like this, you have found something worth acknowledging.
                  Yeah it is hard to do for sure. I had the problem when I got my EarthQuake Orbital Speakers. I got into a whole bunch of HOT water with the Wife when she overheard me talking to another HT buddy and I was :rant: about how I did not like my "new speakers"

                  The bottom part I only agree in part. It is hard to put into words some times how something sounds. So there has to be some times, key words that people can relate to. This systems sounds "tinty" Sounds muddy and so on.

                  I think that Secrets HTHIFI and their side by side stuff is pretty cool. But even then DVD players that have a 89 or 79 score to me looked better than the DVD player that scored 96.

                  Bottom line.....the best way to do it....shop around.....look a lot.....listen a ton......and buy. Every one's taste is different.

                  Great quote aphexist that is VERY TRUE! :T
                  The Bitterness of poor quality last longer than the joy of low prices.

                  Comment

                  • comeup
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2005
                    • 356

                    #10
                    I like honest sites like this one you will receive the best reviews from people like us. We aren't making $$$$$ from this we love it for what it is.




                    www.audioreview.com is one of my FAV..
                    Blake

                    Comment

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