Solid State CD Players Superior To Tube Players

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  • gostan
    Senior Member
    • May 2003
    • 445

    Solid State CD Players Superior To Tube Players

    After in-home demos of the Jolida and Cary tube ouput cd players and hi-fi shop demos of the Shanling and Musical Fidelity tube output cd players, I opted for an Arcam CD36 solid state player for my system cd player upgrade.

    Initially, I was very enamored with the warm sound and centered soundstages of the various tube cd players. Over time, however, I found that the tube players lacked the full detail, superior dynamics and better lower end of various solid state cd players; particularly a number of British-made players by Linn, Meridian and Arcam.

    The rush back to tubes is certainly an interesting audiophile phenomena. I did really enjoy a number of 2 channel tube preamplifiers, which to my ears, made the music sound warmer without degradation of detail and bass, than did several of the tube cd players.I know that many of you feel the opposite based upon recent tube cd player purchase, but there are ust my thoughts on the subject after numerous hours and time spent demoing tube and ss players in various listening environments.

    Stan
    Stan
  • DifferentLee
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2005
    • 113

    #2
    I think it is too design specific to make a general statement. Many of us never rushed away from tubes (amps, preamps that is) so we are not suddenly coming back. I believe that tube sound is more accurate tonally than solid state. The only ss amps I like are Halcro and I can't afford them. I have issues with Krell and Pass Labs...I work with musicians so my ears are very sensitive to instrument tone. Alot of the past issues with tubes got worked out in the early 90s such as bass response.

    More important for me are the chips and overall implementation and the ability for hirez. I do like the Arcam products a lot and I believe they have the latest Wolfson chips. I like a good SACD player even better and sonics are improving a lot in that arena.

    Comment

    • NewBuyer
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2005
      • 122

      #3
      I recently listened to the new Musical Fidelity A5 CD Player (which has tube output stages) and I too was not impressed with the "tube sound". I found that I much prefer the detail and accuracy of the good solid state CD players.

      Comment

      • Foxman
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2003
        • 434

        #4
        Well I have never heard a Tube CD player, but I can't help but wonder if it's not more a matter of what were used to hearing that drives us to solid state?
        IMO

        My Movies
        Bad Pics of my system

        Comment

        • gostan
          Senior Member
          • May 2003
          • 445

          #5
          Originally posted by Foxman
          Well I have never heard a Tube CD player, but I can't help but wonder if it's not more a matter of what were used to hearing that drives us to solid state?
          Foxman,

          You raise a good point. But, there are certainly a number of solid state players that are so analytical that they are as difficult to listen to as some of the "softer" tube players. I think that there is a great variety of sound amongst similar priced ss players and similar priced tube players. It is difficult and time consuming to listen long and hard enough to make the proper comparisons which allow you to be sure about which sounds you really find appealing for the long haul, but it is definitely a worthwhile exercise.

          Stan
          Stan

          Comment

          • gostan
            Senior Member
            • May 2003
            • 445

            #6
            Originally posted by DifferentLee
            I like a good SACD player even better and sonics are improving a lot in that arena.
            Lee,

            I have a few recordings in both SACD and redbook and I am going to do some direct comparisons. In the past I have found some very good SACD recordings and some not so good ones - it might be interesting to compare the two formats on a limited basis.

            Stan
            Stan

            Comment

            • GregLett
              Senior Member
              • May 2005
              • 753

              #7
              I wouldn't say that SS players are superior to Tube players at all, they just have different sounds.
              I feel that the SS players have a more "forward" sound while the tubes are a little laid back.
              The Jolida, compared to Rotel-1072 and Cal Audio Icon Mark II has (in my system) a wider
              sound stage, and as on of my buddies put it "it invites you to listen". The detail is there, just
              not as "forward"as with the SS players.

              After and hour of listening to the "up front, in your face" presentation of the SS players
              I have a headache.The other issue I had with SS players it that it rendered 90% of my
              collection un-listenable. I find with tubes I can listen to more of my collection, which is
              across the spectrum, I can also listen for long periods without fatigue.
              Greg

              Comment

              • NewBuyer
                Senior Member
                • Feb 2005
                • 122

                #8
                What specifically about tubes makes them sound different from solid state? Just guessing here: Is it that tubes roll-off the highs, or add extra distortion, etc?

                Comment

                • soundhound
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 815

                  #9
                  As was mentioned in a prevoius post, lots of ss players tend to be clinical, or brittle sounding where tubes tend to "soften" things up a bit. Thats not to imply they don't go as high, or low as transistors. In fact the tones are very accurate with the tubes, the JD100 by Jolida emotionally draws you into the music, the sound has alot of depth where as ss tends to be shallower sounding.

                  Comment

                  • NewBuyer
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2005
                    • 122

                    #10
                    Thanks soundhound... To clarify though, my question was about the differences in the hardware technology. Why, hardware-wise, do tubes sound different, compared to solid state? Do tubes roll-off the highs, or add distortion, or ??? Something must certainly account for this...

                    Comment

                    • gostan
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2003
                      • 445

                      #11
                      Originally posted by soundhound
                      As was mentioned in a prevoius post, lots of ss players tend to be clinical, or brittle sounding where tubes tend to "soften" things up a bit. Thats not to imply they don't go as high, or low as transistors. In fact the tones are very accurate with the tubes, the JD100 by Jolida emotionally draws you into the music, the sound has alot of depth where as ss tends to be shallower sounding.
                      Bob:

                      I have noticed throughout many hi fi forums that tube owners call their players warm and solid state players too analytical and that solid state owners call their players detailed and tube players too soft.

                      My experience is that it is erroneous to make such generalizations as different players have different sounds, whether they be tube or solid state. As you know, I have demoed the Jolida player in my home and it is definitely a very good sounding player at a great pricepoint, but, imo, it is of questionable long-term build quality.but I have listened to many ss players that have a great soundstage and do not fatigue my ears.

                      I did find some ss players too forward and harsh (the Krell's for example), but I found a number of solid state players that have nice broad soundstages and do not fatigue my ears at all.

                      The major benefit to tube players is the ability to roll your tubes and change the sound of the player. Unfortunately, this is not available with solid state players. But, if you make the right ss choice, tube rolling will not really be missed.

                      Bottom line is that the ultimate choice is an individual one and that is why we listen and demo and make our own choices.

                      Stan
                      Stan

                      Comment

                      • soundhound
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 815

                        #12
                        Well put Stan, I couldn't agree more. After re-reading my post it does generalize, and I had made reference to the 4 consumer shot players that I have had in my set up versus the Jolida. People have widely varying tastes, wich is evident by the fact there are so many choices, and so many manufacturers doing so well. Ultimately, as said above, people need to go listen for themselves. Shoot, if there were a Be All- End All, that is what we all would have, and a/v forums wouldn't be around.

                        Comment

                        • GregLett
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2005
                          • 753

                          #13
                          Well said gentlemen!
                          Greg

                          Comment

                          • soundhound
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 815

                            #14
                            Sorry NewBuyer, may be a tad of both.........But, as GregLett replied about his buddy saying "it invites you to come and listen", many of us who have the JD100 got that same sensation when first popping in a disc.

                            Comment

                            • gostan
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2003
                              • 445

                              #15
                              Originally posted by soundhound
                              Sorry NewBuyer, may be a tad of both.........But, as GregLett replied about his buddy saying "it invites you to come and listen", many of us who have the JD100 got that same sensation when first popping in a disc.
                              No question that you know that you are listening to something very warm and invitingt when you first listen to the Jolida tube player, but, on further listening and analysis the question becomes: Am I listening to all of the music produced and available on the original recording? I am not sure that this is the case, especially after making direct comparisons of various recordings to some ss players that are admittedly more expensive than the Jolida. What appears to be initially and subsequently more inviting, may be shortchanging the original recording by not reproducing all that is available on the disc.
                              Stan

                              Comment

                              • GregLett
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2005
                                • 753

                                #16
                                Didn't get that impression at all in my setup. I still get all that's on the disk that I use. My experience with my friends, is that they prefer the more forward sound of the SS players, when we do our A/B comparasions. All the detail is there, but it's just laid back. I would say the tubes takes the edge off abit.
                                For some this wouldn't be acceptable, but for others it's perfect.

                                The term "more coherent" is used to describe the sound of SS gear compared to tubes, but I think the better word would be "forward". Tube gear (to me) doesn't scatter (make incoherent) the sound, it more restrains the (highs) extreme, That's what I like about it. The SS gear is "forward" no restrains.
                                Greg

                                Comment

                                • Foxman
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jan 2003
                                  • 434

                                  #17
                                  Just for referance, what are we talking about in terms of Money, with the Jolida player? As I stated I have never listened to a tube CD player, for that matter it has been 20 years since I have listened to any tube equipment and that was an old Makintosh receiver.
                                  IMO

                                  My Movies
                                  Bad Pics of my system

                                  Comment

                                  • GregLett
                                    Senior Member
                                    • May 2005
                                    • 753

                                    #18
                                    Foxman I just sent you a PM.
                                    Greg

                                    Comment

                                    • bhuskins
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Aug 2003
                                      • 504

                                      #19
                                      I personally use a Cary 303/300 (tube buffered), Musical Fidelity TriVista SACD (tube buffered) and a Levinson 390S CD player in one of my set ups. It really depends on my mood and music choice as to what player I'm going to use. I definitely think that some tube players sound better with certain speaker/amp combos that certain SS players. As Stan prefers the Arcam SS player with his setup, others might not prefer it over the other quality units he tried out on their own setup (and they may very well prefer it as he did.) It's the combination of variables that make all of the subtle differences in detail that we all have opinions on what we prefer. There are definitely a lot of good choices out there.

                                      Brent Huskins
                                      Media Design
                                      HTGuide Sponsor

                                      Comment

                                      • soundhound
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Mar 2004
                                        • 815

                                        #20
                                        Just a side note, the Jolida, as I am sure many others do have a digital out if one prefers to keep it al ss, but then that kind of defeats its purpose. Brent, you have a very valid point, which has been made many times, which is kind of the foundation of All of this, that being every piece of hardware in the chain attributes to the sound. Replace 1 link and bada-bing, different. If I werent running horn loaded speaks I may want a more "defined" cd output. I just can't bring myself to go another direction, as I started on the end, and worked my way back upstream. I had taken both outputs out of my cd player into 2 inputs on my pre-pro initially so I could a/b in real time, and the digital out has a much larger soundsatge, but, for 2 channel listening I much prefer the sound I get from the tubes.

                                        Comment

                                        • gostan
                                          Senior Member
                                          • May 2003
                                          • 445

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by bhuskins
                                          As Stan prefers the Arcam SS player with his setup, others might not prefer it over the other quality units he tried out on their own setup (and they may very well prefer it as he did.) It's the combination of variables that make all of the subtle differences in detail that we all have opinions on what we prefer. There are definitely a lot of good choices out there.

                                          Brent Huskins
                                          Media Design
                                          HTGuide Sponsor
                                          Brent:

                                          You are so right about all of the different good choices out there. Also, in my case, the fact that I have a turntable in active use in my system certainly had a bearing on whether to go for a tube or ss player. Just as you can go back and forth between various players depending upon mood and music, I can do the same between turntable and cd player. Lots of choices to provide us all with lots of good music.

                                          Stan
                                          Stan

                                          Comment

                                          • GregLett
                                            Senior Member
                                            • May 2005
                                            • 753

                                            #22
                                            So many choices... So little cash
                                            Greg

                                            Comment

                                            • gostan
                                              Senior Member
                                              • May 2003
                                              • 445

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by GregLett
                                              So many choices... So little cash
                                              All Tapped Out!!!
                                              Stan

                                              Comment

                                              • tboooe
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Jun 2005
                                                • 657

                                                #24
                                                I have the cary 303/300 tube/ss cd player and i am finding with the standard tubes, I prefer the ss output. The tube output definitely made the music sound very relaxed but at the expense of detail and dynamics. when I switched to ss, the difference was amazing. It sounded as if a veil was lifted off the speakers. The tubes in comparison made everything sound muffled. It muffled details such as gentle cymbal crashes and subtle drum taps. So right now, i am using the ss output only. I have not given up on the tube output though. I plan on doing some tube rolling soon as I have heard the cary really benefits from some aftermarket tubes.

                                                Comment

                                                • gostan
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • May 2003
                                                  • 445

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by tboooe
                                                  I have the cary 303/300 tube/ss cd player and i am finding with the standard tubes, I prefer the ss output. The tube output definitely made the music sound very relaxed but at the expense of detail and dynamics. when I switched to ss, the difference was amazing. It sounded as if a veil was lifted off the speakers. The tubes in comparison made everything sound muffled. It muffled details such as gentle cymbal crashes and subtle drum taps. So right now, i am using the ss output only. I have not given up on the tube output though. I plan on doing some tube rolling soon as I have heard the cary really benefits from some aftermarket tubes.
                                                  Have you experimented at all with the Cary ability to set the ss output to different upsampling rates?
                                                  Stan

                                                  Comment

                                                  • tboooe
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Jun 2005
                                                    • 657

                                                    #26
                                                    gostan, I did play with the upsampling. for me, I found that anything after 192 started to make the music sound thin and tinny (not tiny, but metallic).

                                                    Comment

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