The MIRACLE of room treatment, my experience

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  • Blazar
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2004
    • 127

    The MIRACLE of room treatment, my experience

    I just swapped out a pair of 802N for B&W 802D speakers recently and did notice a significant improvement. I'm not sure if the 802D are just way better or that the 802N were just never good enough.

    Besides the speaker change I knew I could improve my 20x24 room with vaulted ceilings and horrible acoustics. The room was just too "live" and you could prove it by clapping your hands anywhere in the room.

    Also when my 802N's were in my old apartment, they sounded much better and the bass was much more controlled and "dynamic". My room created a bass hole (the best description I could come up with). At first I thought it was just because the room was too big. I did notice that the front corners of the room and the side wall areas were pretty bass heavy when you stood there. This bass just wasn't emanating to my sitting position.

    After reading a few websites I ordered a few acoustic "treatments". I figured my bass was being cancelled out and not that the speakers weren't producing it.

    I sent off for:

    16 Auralex Sonoflat 2x2 foot panels.
    8 Auralex LENRD Bass trap corner 1x2 foam pieces.
    6 ceiling absorption tiles (I haven't received these yet)
    4 Echobusters brand "Corner Busters"

    Basically the goal was to improve bass and reduce echos. The minute I threw the bass traps into the corners (3 on the left front and 3 on the right front) and 2 in the back.... the improvement to the bass was astounding. All that control and perfection you expect from B&W speakers with a $12000 price tag... I found it!

    Then I threw the Auralex sonoflat panels up at a few of the primary reflection points and then the second miracle occured. Instead of sounding loud and very much "fatiguing", I can get so much more detail without cranking up the volume now. Even before, turning up the volume meant it was louder but not more detailed.

    Now you can clap your hands and you can only hear one echo, not 3-4. My echobusters corner triangles and the ceiling foam tiles haven't come in yet and things already are sounding so much better. Once I add these, I hope I don't deaded the room too much. I'm going to experiment with them a little to see before I actually permanently install all the pieces.

    The last thing I could conceivably do is buy some diffusion panels to reduce some echo but not necessarily deaden the room too much.

    The approximate cost so far was around $1000 which is likely more than was needed. With a slightly cheaper brand I might have accomplished this with some foam kits but they might not look as good as the stuff I have now. I also could have spent a LOT more on the venture given the vast array of "Designer" materials that look really good. I haven't setup any curtains or anything to conceal any of the panels since I got colors that reasonably match the room colors.

    For anyone who hasn't tried this or who has wondered if it was worth the money.... the effect is FAR more dramatic than making ridiculous power cord or interconnect change. The effect is greater than 90% of amplifier changes you will make. It's not as glamorous since it's not a piece of electronics and the marketing is not as fancy as for your latest titanium, gold, and silver encrusted toslink cable. The effect is so great that I would argue you shouldn't even BOTHER buying anything expensive unless you plan to do some room adjustments. Some rooms are probably perfect as-is... but most could probably use some help.

    Get creative and you can conceal some of the treatments as well. You can even add certain furniture to "room treatments" that affect the sound.
    Blazar!
    (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)
  • Pieter
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2005
    • 219

    #2
    Another convert to the acoustics gospel. Amazing, ain't it. Dollar for Dollar the best money you can spend.

    Comment

    • caleb
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2004
      • 514

      #3
      Pieter, you must talk to me about these acoustic treatments when you are next down 0 I would be very interested to hear about them.

      By the way Blazar, don't you damage the acoustic panels when you throw them at the walls?

      Comment

      • dyazdani
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Oct 2005
        • 7032

        #4
        Great post. If you are proficient at DIY work, one could treat a room for a VERY attractive price.

        I can buy the materials and build panels/traps for my room for about $250. That amount would get me 80% there as far as treatment. Not bad considering the same money would only buy maybe one decent cable and the incremental increase in performance would be many times greater.
        Danish

        Comment

        • PewterTA
          Moderator
          • Nov 2004
          • 2901

          #5
          Lets see some pictures! :amen:
          Digital Audio makes me Happy.
          -Dan

          Comment

          • Blazar
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2004
            • 127

            #6
            I'll post some follow and pictures once I get the whole thing done... so far I have just been experiementing with positioning and so everything is not permanently tacked down yet.

            Also I am still expecting more stuff to come in.

            The room is painted in a deep maroon color and the roof and projector screen wall are painted black. Basically the maroon colored auralex panels and some black panels went well in terms of color scheme. The fairly spartan decor made the auralex DST bass traps which are rather unsightly on their website look fairly decent.

            I promise to get up some pictures at some point.
            Blazar!
            (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

            Comment

            • DifferentLee
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2005
              • 113

              #7
              I would also agree that room acoustics make a big difference. One thing that works for me in the past 20 years over several different rooms is the speaker placement formula on the Cardas website: www.cardas.com Note that different formulas are available for planar users.

              Comment

              • Blazar
                Senior Member
                • Feb 2004
                • 127

                #8
                speaker placement also clearly makes a difference. As a matter of fact, I can now move my speakers away from the wall more since the bass is now SO profoundly better with the bass traps.


                I'm listening while I write this and I can say these 802D's produce the most godlike heart melting bass ever heard in all my life.... and the room treatments brought this out of them.

                What accuracy and soundstaging.... oh sweet Jesus. I knew NOTHING about listening to music until I added this goofy foam into the room.

                The bass is like a hot knife cutting into butter.... so amazingly smooth. I can't contain the emotions.

                I can;t wait to get the rest of the materials in to finish the project.
                Blazar!
                (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

                Comment

                • audiofan
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2004
                  • 272

                  #9
                  I did the same thing for my 2-channel listening room. I built 4 of 4" bass trap out of fiberglass and 2 of 2" panel placing at the first reflection area. The bass is so much better now and no more echo (even though it's not dead to my taste). I'm sure the EchoBuster will improve your listening room. I saw Echobuster at one of my local audio dealer. It's nice and light.

                  Comment

                  • Brandon B
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Jun 2001
                    • 2193

                    #10
                    Big flokati rugs. NO floor reflection.

                    BB

                    Comment

                    • Race Car Driver
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Mar 2005
                      • 1537

                      #11
                      Id love to see some pics.
                      B&W

                      Comment

                      • Bob
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2000
                        • 802

                        #12
                        My room is almost identical in size to yours. 21x22 and a open ceiling. No amount of moving speakers around or adding subs ever sounded right. Finally a engineering friend of mine came over with some DIY measuring devices, mics, and a computer and showed me that right in the seating position there was almost no bass. Using a combo of Real Traps and ASC Tube Traps made a bigger difference, for the better, than any component change. Including trying different speakers and speakers plus subs.
                        Now when I do a audio plot of my room there is less than 3 db, plus or minus, almost all the way across the plot.
                        My room was so bad that it took 18 Real Traps and 6 ASC Traps to tame it. Best money I speant. I would trade down any component I own before giving up the treatment.

                        Comment

                        • Blazar
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2004
                          • 127

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Bob
                          My room is almost identical in size to yours. 21x22 and a open ceiling. No amount of moving speakers around or adding subs ever sounded right. Finally a engineering friend of mine came over with some DIY measuring devices, mics, and a computer and showed me that right in the seating position there was almost no bass. Using a combo of Real Traps and ASC Tube Traps made a bigger difference, for the better, than any component change. Including trying different speakers and speakers plus subs.
                          Now when I do a audio plot of my room there is less than 3 db, plus or minus, almost all the way across the plot.
                          My room was so bad that it took 18 Real Traps and 6 ASC Traps to tame it. Best money I speant. I would trade down any component I own before giving up the treatment.
                          I'm still ordering more auralex bass traps... the effect is working and I'm not sure if I can improve it further till I try.
                          Blazar!
                          (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

                          Comment

                          • Chris D
                            Moderator Emeritus
                            • Dec 2000
                            • 16877

                            #14
                            I agree... let's see some pics!
                            CHRIS

                            Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                            - Pleasantville

                            Comment

                            • Bob
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2000
                              • 802

                              #15
                              How do you post pictures, for those of us that are computer and internet dummies?

                              Comment

                              • Chris D
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Dec 2000
                                • 16877

                                #16
                                If you click on the "Post Reply" button on the bottom left below the thread, or the "Go Advanced" button on the bottom central below the text window, it will take you to an advanced expanded reply page where you can add smilies, text formatting options, pictures, etc. (i.e. do not use the "Quick Reply" function below a thread) Then on the advanced reply page, click on "manage attachments", and you can upload small pictures to your post. Once it's uploaded and hosted on the HTGuide server, if you like you can repost the picture location in the style of [ IMG ]file location[/ IMG ] and it will show up as a picture in your actual post instead of just a clickable thumbnail below it. (just take out the spaces around "IMG")
                                CHRIS

                                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                - Pleasantville

                                Comment

                                • Snap
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Feb 2005
                                  • 1295

                                  #17
                                  you have some serious loot in that system. The panels are way nice. Good choice! :T
                                  The Bitterness of poor quality last longer than the joy of low prices.

                                  Comment

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