NuForce Ref 9's

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  • gostan
    Senior Member
    • May 2003
    • 445

    NuForce Ref 9's

    After demoing various amplifiers over the past year, I made the decision to upgrade to the NuForce Ref 9's, which were delivered this past Friday. I thought that I would post my initial impressions as this product is rather new and has been the subject of some interesting responses on the two existing threads.

    NuForce Reference 9’s Review:

    System: Arcam AVP-700, Denon DVD-2900, B&W N803, HTM1, N805 & ASW-850 and Aragon 8008ST with Kimber 8TC and Cobalt speaker cables and a combination of Kimber, Audioquest and Apature interconnects.

    Packaging & Aesthetics: Each of the three Ref 9’s each came packed in its’ own “plain jane” box just a little larger than their minute’ form factor with the power cord at one end of the box. As I unpacked them and lifted each out of the box, I could not believe how light and small they are. The black versions are well milled and pleasing too look at. The face plate is plain with a blue power on diode in the middle and no power switch on the front, as it is located in the rear.

    Hook-Up: I checked to make sure that the toggle switch on the back was pointed to RCA and not the balanced connections. My Ref 9’s came with the upgraded Eichmann Cable Pod connectors and these provide for a very clean and tight speaker wire connection at the amplifier end.

    Initial Observations: Right from the get go it is apparent that these very fast switching amplifiers are very musical in nature with a very low quick bass. They are dynamic and extremely detailed. The soundstage is full, but retains its realism. These comments are made in direct comparison to how my system sounded when being powered by the Aragon amp, and formerly, by a Rotel RMB-1075.

    Music & Movie Demonstrations:

    Julia Fordham-That’s Live: A great test as the combination of Larry Klein’s bass and Julia’s vocals provide a beautiful but difficult to power low-hi instrument-vocal recording. The first thing that I noticed is the deep deep bass. The response speed between Julia’s vocals and the instruments and the individual nature of the sound of each simply sounded wonderful. I could hear the individual strings of Larry Klein’s bass twanging back and forth. The guitars and vocals on Concrete Love with India Arie and the vocals on Lovin’ You, a Minnie Ripperton composition sounded like I had never listened to either before. Not different, but more noticeable and realistic.

    Super Session: Mike Bloomfield’s guitar on His Holy Modal Majesty has always been a favorite of mine. Soulful and jazz-like, the Ref 9’s definitely bring this recording to another level.

    John Coltrane-Blue Train: I listened to this on SACD and on an Analogue Productions 45rpm recording. Coltrane’s sound is very different and the reproduction of his tenor sax is true to both recordings. Kenny Drew’s piano solo on Blue Train again sounds full, dynamic and just like he was sitting and playing in my living room. For me, the Ref 9’s helped to reproduce this historic recording with a very deep soundstage, when directly compared to other amps.

    The Chronicles Of Riddick: The soundtrack on this one is definitely superb. A first test of the DD/DTS capabilities of my Arcam AVP-700 when mated with the NuForce amps across the front. The speed and transient responses of the Ref 9’s really shines with this soundtrack. I heard individual sounds like the pounding of metal on metal, or a warrior hitting the floor, etc. which I had never heard sounding so real on previous viewings.

    Summary: The amps only been running for about 45 hours. When I initially demoed them, my comment was that they brought a new speedier and lower bass response and a clearer and more dynamic mid-range to my B&W’s. My opinion has not wavered. The NuForce Ref 9’s are small in size, but produce a deep and detailed soundstage. I am just beginning to realize how musical sounding they are. They definitely do not change the recording, but I am now able to listen to certain recordings in a different light, as a veil has been lifted, and the recordings have come alive. Easy to install and move due to their size, and easy on the pocketbook at a fabulous price point, when compared to many other more expensive amplifier options; the NuForce amps have been worth waiting for.
    Stan
  • bigburner
    Super Senior Member
    • May 2005
    • 2649

    #2
    To borrow a cliché from the computer industry, I'm starting to think that these digital amps really are a paradigm shift.

    Hey, nice review too!

    Comment

    • David Meek
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 8938

      #3
      Nice review Stan. I really would like to hear a pair of these amps in action.
      .

      David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

      Comment

      • gostan
        Senior Member
        • May 2003
        • 445

        #4
        Originally posted by David Meek
        Nice review Stan. I really would like to hear a pair of these amps in action.
        David: The nice thing about their size and weight is that it is not expensive for a dealer to ship them to you for review purposes. I had them for four days about a month ago, which is how I was able to finally make the affirmative purchase decision. The downside is that they are so small width wise that I may have to purchase a few more to fill in the gap that now exists on the shelf they are located upon in my rack.
        Stan
        Stan

        Comment

        • DrJRapp
          Super Senior Member
          • Apr 2003
          • 1204

          #5
          Nice review Stan

          How would you compare them sound character wise with your 1075? Could you use them let's say to power the mains and the 1075 for the rest?
          Jerry Rappaport

          Comment

          • gianni
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2002
            • 524

            #6
            Originally posted by DrJRapp
            Nice review Stan

            How would you compare them sound character wise with your 1075? Could you use them let's say to power the mains and the 1075 for the rest?
            Ok Jerry, what are you up to now?

            Let me take a guess: After being so pleasantly surprised with your new RMB-1077, you are now looking for an amp or amps to address it's one sonic short coming -- lack of perceived depth. Are You thinking of the NuForce to drive your Left & Right mains? You did mention the 1077 sounded very similar to the 1075. So, if the answer to your question hints that if the Nuforce is similar in signature to the 1075, may you try to mate it with the 1077?

            Or, is this for your second system? Either way, you seem to have been bitten by the switching amp technology bug.

            Am I even close? :W
            Last edited by gianni; 04 October 2005, 21:18 Tuesday.

            Comment

            • Blazar
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2004
              • 127

              #7
              the technology will start to become so cheap to produce as R&D experience accumulates that it's gonna be ridiculous how much power output and sonic quality you will be able to get for the money.

              I'm sure there is still a lot of room for improvement given how relatively new this stuff is and how good it already sounds.

              i envision finally being able to afford quad-amping or tri-amping speakers with active crossover systems located between the source and the ampifiers.

              Add to that PSAUDIO's gain cell concept of eliminating the analog volume knob with voltage regulated volume control.

              It's going to result in a far superior audio experience than we have now. We will finally be able to experience all the things that were once simply "good ideas" but hard to implement.
              Blazar!
              (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

              Comment

              • gostan
                Senior Member
                • May 2003
                • 445

                #8
                Originally posted by DrJRapp
                Nice review Stan

                How would you compare them sound character wise with your 1075? Could you use them let's say to power the mains and the 1075 for the rest?
                When I had my 1075 (sold it in August) I was using the Aragon 8008 to power the 803's mains and I passively biamped the HTM1 center with the 1075 runnning my rear surround 805's. I always felt that the 1075 running the center channel was not equal to the sound derived from the Aragon....it would be even more of a deficiency with the Ref 9's, which is why I purchased 3 to power the fronts and center. I am a firm believer that the center channel is the most important speaker in a HT setup.

                Overall, the deep and speedy bass and the deeper and dynamic soundstage of the Ref 9's make the mating of the 1075 for a center channel questionable to me.
                Stan

                Comment

                • yfei
                  Junior Member
                  • Aug 2005
                  • 21

                  #9
                  My Ref 8b just arraived today and also paired up with N803. I am using Benchmark DAC1 as both DAC and Preamp. I listened for about 1 hour.

                  First thing is: reposition the speakers! Nuforce Ref 8b has full mids and bass. My current amps are lack of power so I put the speakers into resonance distance with walls. Now need to pull them they away from walls.

                  Then, enjoy: the detail is amazing. Why I say amazing, because previously I can only hear such details with very harsh or bright amps. Nuforce is not any bright at all, and producing much more amazing details! Probably this means the amp is seemlessly powerful through all impendences (3.0 ohms ~ 8 ohms for N803), so all frequencies now are coming out.

                  The sound stage is amazing to me also, after spending an hour moving around the speakers.

                  The speed is faster than any solid state amps I have heard. But I am not amazed by it, because I've been listening T-Amp (Sonic Impact T-Amplifier) for about 2 months now. All these power switching amps (another switching amp I listened to is RB 1077) are very fast, I have used to the fast speed T-Amp is the one that sold me to the world of switching amps, it's speed and pureness convinced me of this technology.

                  Comment

                  • gostan
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2003
                    • 445

                    #10
                    Yfei:

                    Congratulations on your NuForce amps and for a nice review.

                    What are you using for a transport with your Benchmark DAC 1? I have been looking for a new stand alone cd player, but maybe I should consider the DAC 1 and simply mate it with my Denon DVD 2900 player.

                    In any case, enjoy your Ref 8B's!

                    Stan
                    Stan

                    Comment

                    • DrJRapp
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Apr 2003
                      • 1204

                      #11
                      Originally posted by gianni
                      Ok Jerry, what are you up to now?

                      Are You thinking of the NuForce to drive your Left & Right mains?
                      Or, is this for your second system? Either way, you seem to have been bitten by the switching amp technology bug.

                      Am I even close? :W
                      Yup...all of the above
                      Jerry Rappaport

                      Comment

                      • yfei
                        Junior Member
                        • Aug 2005
                        • 21

                        #12
                        Originally posted by gostan
                        Yfei:
                        Congratulations on your NuForce amps and for a nice review.
                        What are you using for a transport with your Benchmark DAC 1? I have been looking for a new stand alone cd player, but maybe I should consider the DAC 1 and simply mate it with my Denon DVD 2900 player.
                        In any case, enjoy your Ref 8B's!
                        Stan
                        Thanks!
                        Actually you are lucky, I ordered Ref 9's on Oct 1st, but they are temporally out of stock, will not be available before mid Oct.
                        Before Nuforce came, I used to have Marantz CD17 MKII, it's a wonderful transport. Now I am using Computer->Transit USB; Samsung HD841 DVD player, but this dvd player is not bit transparent. Now I am also researching on a better cd transport.

                        Comment

                        • Lex
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Apr 2001
                          • 27461

                          #13
                          This thread seems to have degenerated to 2 guys that own them congrating each other now after some inactivity. Let's be careful that this doesn't become a NuForce Ad. That is why we have advertising here. I'll watch with interest if the next post is of significance, or not. When it goes to empty posting content again, this thread will be close.

                          Also, keep on topic, discussion of transports or DACs belong in other threads other places.
                          Doug
                          "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                          Comment

                          • Aussie Geoff
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 1914

                            #14
                            Guys,

                            I've heard and loved the Nuforce's Ref 8 and Ref 9s at my Aussie dealer and found them up their with the best amps I have ever heard... I am saving hard and waiting to see how they settle down... I notice that there seem to have been a series of revisions of the older Ref 8 over time... This is new technology with the amps evolving over 2005 and getting better all the time... So far the company seems to honour its customers with an upgrade policy...

                            Still I'm not too worried to be saving... It seems like they will only get better... And I need 7 of them... Besides it will give me the chance to hear the newer digital competition such as Rotel's RMB-1077 and Acoustic Reality’s 1001 beasts. I've heard the Bel Canto Evo and like them a lot but not as much as the NuForce... I've also heard the amazing Halcro MC20, 50 and 70 which could be (and probably are) every bit as good as the NuForce's) but had a (to me) annoying fan which I could hear from my listening chair... Then of course we will have the new generation Bel Cantos out in 2 or 3 months….

                            Digital technology - it is going to be a fun ride...I can’t wait arty:

                            Geoff

                            Comment

                            • GregLett
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2005
                              • 753

                              #15
                              I have a demo pair of NuForce amps, waiting for me at home to audition tonight.
                              Think I should get sick now and go home early???
                              I will post my opinions later.
                              Greg

                              Comment

                              • David Meek
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 8938

                                #16
                                Oh, I would. :B
                                .

                                David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                Comment

                                • gostan
                                  Senior Member
                                  • May 2003
                                  • 445

                                  #17
                                  Greg:

                                  Those NuForce Ref 9's will look spectacular on your stand.

                                  Also, Jason at NuForce has just announced that the Ref 9's have just been awarded an Editors Choice Award by The Absolute Sound. He is not sure whether this will appear in the December or the January issue of The Absolute Sound.

                                  Go home now!!

                                  Stan
                                  Stan

                                  Comment

                                  • GregLett
                                    Senior Member
                                    • May 2005
                                    • 753

                                    #18
                                    I just got through listening to the Ref. 9's. One good point it has a 100% WAF. When I opened
                                    the box I said "Here are the amps baby" She said "where?" When I said these are the amps
                                    she said I love those.

                                    At first listen I did notice an immediate improvement over my Rotel, but it was nothing spectacular.
                                    The sound stage was a bit more detailed, there was more channel separation (mono block plus) but
                                    the over all sound, I felt was not much better than the Rotel. I listened for about an hour and was just
                                    a little pleased. I figured that the amp just didn't go well with my (Tube) Jolida and Prima Luna.

                                    Then I decided to try a silver interconnect I had on hand between the preamp and amps.
                                    All I can say is Holy #%$#. I know cables make a difference, but dam. It was a if the
                                    copper interconnect (a $300 interconnect) was choking back the sound.
                                    The sound stage expanded! The music poured into the room. This amp is
                                    certainly on the top of my list at this time.
                                    I can't report much on the lower bass region (a limitation of my speakers) but the mid bass
                                    and up were great! you need a good pair of speakers to get all out o this amp.

                                    If you audition this amp in house, and you feel that you are not getting that much out of it
                                    try different cables.
                                    Greg

                                    Comment

                                    • Yves Smolders
                                      Junior Member
                                      • Oct 2005
                                      • 8

                                      #19
                                      Yeah it's amazing what class-D is capable of these days.

                                      I was looking for good power for my N804 about a year ago, but all the "classic" amps where just too expensive for me. I was pointed to class-D and was sceptical. Then I was pointed to the Forum X and other forums where a new module from Hypex, UcD, was being raved about.

                                      I ordered 2 modules UcD400AD, thinking if they were bad for N804's, I could still use them as a high power amps for a "party" system.

                                      After I hooked them up to the Nautilus speakers, I've never looked back...

                                      I upgraded the power supply section (it's not doing SPMS power like the nuforce, but "old school" big toroids & caps) and I recognize the "h*l* sh*t" effect like many of you had with the Nuforce.

                                      Here's my DIY amp if you like to see: Photo here

                                      This amp is capable of 2x200W in 8 ohms, 2x400 into 4. Due to the limit of 20A per channel (well, limit.... lol) smaller impendances slowly roll back the max output to about 200W into 2 ohms per channel.

                                      PS. Rotel and Acoustic Reality are both based on B&O's ICEpower modules. And PS again, since a link to another forum (which is actually unrelated to HT), send me a private message.
                                      Last edited by Yves Smolders; 03 November 2005, 04:58 Thursday.

                                      Comment

                                      • gostan
                                        Senior Member
                                        • May 2003
                                        • 445

                                        #20
                                        Here is a link to the Absolute Sound Editors Choice award review of the NuForce Reference 9's on AVGuide. I guess this review might be considered to be a fully realistic and unbiased confirmation of what those of us who have been lucky enough to get our hands on some Ref 9's have been raving about.
                                        http://www.avguide.com/servlet/download/2337.pdf?download=yes

                                        Stan
                                        Stan

                                        Comment

                                        • Adz
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jan 2004
                                          • 549

                                          #21
                                          In case anyone is interested, I received today 3 Ref 9s (on loan) to compare against my Bryston 6BSST across the front soundstage. If anyone lives in the NY Metro area and is interested in coming by to hear the difference or possibly bring your own amp to compare, drop me an email or IM. I should have them hopefully through the Thanksgiving weekend.
                                          Adz

                                          Comment

                                          • NewBuyer
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Feb 2005
                                            • 122

                                            #22
                                            Hi Adz, would you please give your impression of the Ref 9's compared to your Bryston 6BSST?

                                            Comment

                                            • Adz
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jan 2004
                                              • 549

                                              #23
                                              Of course I will be glad to.
                                              Adz

                                              Comment

                                              • GregLett
                                                Senior Member
                                                • May 2005
                                                • 753

                                                #24
                                                Hey... ADZ, what happened to the review???
                                                Greg

                                                Comment

                                                • ThomasW
                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                  • 10934

                                                  #25
                                                  Adz has a commercial interest in this product. Those kinds of reviews aren't allowed

                                                  IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                                  "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                                  Comment

                                                  • DifferentLee
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Apr 2005
                                                    • 113

                                                    #26
                                                    My understanding is that these are good matches for my Maggies as well.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • GregLett
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • May 2005
                                                      • 753

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by ThomasW
                                                      Adz has a commercial interest in this product. Those kinds of reviews aren't allowed
                                                      Oh :cry:
                                                      Greg

                                                      Comment

                                                      • DrJRapp
                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                        • Apr 2003
                                                        • 1204

                                                        #28
                                                        I'm sitting here in my study library listening to The Holly Cole Trio * on a pair of Ref 9s driving my B&W XT4s. The source is my Shanling CDT100a with no preamp. The Ref 9s are every bit as good as everyone says they are. Immaging is phenominal.


                                                        * Album title: Don't smoke in bed.
                                                        Jerry Rappaport

                                                        Comment

                                                        • JonMarsh
                                                          Mad Max Moderator
                                                          • Aug 2000
                                                          • 15261

                                                          #29
                                                          The Designer of the Ref 9 is an acquaintance of mine for some years; I knew Tranh back when he was working at Power Integrations. Being on his own really seems to suit him, and he's come up with quite a few interesting ideas. We chatted at the CES last week for a bit, and it's good to see Nuforce doing so well. Based on what he's working on now, I think you'll be seeing some more interesting products from them.

                                                          ~Jon
                                                          the AudioWorx
                                                          Natalie P
                                                          M8ta
                                                          Modula Neo DCC
                                                          Modula MT XE
                                                          Modula Xtreme
                                                          Isiris
                                                          Wavecor Ardent

                                                          SMJ
                                                          Minerva Monitor
                                                          Calliope
                                                          Ardent D

                                                          In Development...
                                                          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                          Obi-Wan
                                                          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                          Modula PWB
                                                          Calliope CC Supreme
                                                          Natalie P Ultra
                                                          Natalie P Supreme
                                                          Janus BP1 Sub


                                                          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                          Comment

                                                          • JonMarsh
                                                            Mad Max Moderator
                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                            • 15261

                                                            #30
                                                            Yeah, I did get over there later on, though Tranh had dropped by our booth (Infineon) over at the Sands. It was pretty busy over there....

                                                            What's really funny if you go to their web site and read the "about us" is that Tranh worked on the Tomahawk Cruise missle power systems, and in the early 80's I worked on a DC/DC power supply sold to General Dynamics for the Tomahawk.
                                                            the AudioWorx
                                                            Natalie P
                                                            M8ta
                                                            Modula Neo DCC
                                                            Modula MT XE
                                                            Modula Xtreme
                                                            Isiris
                                                            Wavecor Ardent

                                                            SMJ
                                                            Minerva Monitor
                                                            Calliope
                                                            Ardent D

                                                            In Development...
                                                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                            Obi-Wan
                                                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                            Modula PWB
                                                            Calliope CC Supreme
                                                            Natalie P Ultra
                                                            Natalie P Supreme
                                                            Janus BP1 Sub


                                                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                            Comment

                                                            • ShadowZA
                                                              Super Senior Member
                                                              • Jan 2006
                                                              • 1098

                                                              #31
                                                              I've arrived back in the office after listening to a pair of NuForce Ref 9's driving a pair of Bohlender Graebener Radia 520i ribbon freestanding speakers http://www.bgcorp.com/ . I was blown away. No, that's an understatement. I have been completely blown away. I listened to 3 of my current favourite cd's: Diana Krall - Christmas Songs; Bob James - Morning, Noon & Night and Jim Tomlinson - The Lyric (featuring Stacey Kent on vocals). Turned up the volume to levels such that clipping should have been evident. But, no. There was absolutely no sign of stress or clipping. Musically, the detail ... imho ... was as complete as it could possibly be. More than enough bandwidth to allow ALL the music to be heard. There was absolutely no loss of detail at all. Nothing. Simply pure music, only music ... nothing but music. At high volume, when a track finished playing, There was pure silence. No hiss.

                                                              Am I hooked? You betcha

                                                              I am in the process of changing my upgrade plans to include 5 of these 3lbs babies. Any other South Africans out there ... look out for a detailed review in the March 2006 edition of Audio Video South Africa.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Lex
                                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                                • Apr 2001
                                                                • 27461

                                                                #32
                                                                This chapter concluded

                                                                I am concluding this particular thread on Nu Force. Another thread cannot be started by someone that either sells, works for or in close association with someone that sells them, or otherwise promotes New Force, nor will they be welcome to post to that thread. I am going to start the next Nu-Force discussion thread, and any discussion on NuForce is to occur there by the stated rules.

                                                                I will add that Shadow, this has no bearing on what you posted above. I have no reason to believe your post is anything but geniune. However, every time this thread is popped to the top, it re-iterrates some issues that We'd assoon put to rest once and for all.

                                                                We've had a few issues with this thread's continuation by a few people possibly with alterior motives, and that is now over and will not be allowed to carry forward to the next thread, if there is one.

                                                                My purpose is not to inhibit fair and just discussion on the merit of these products, but it is to make sure we have a level playing field for our advertisers that does not allow play of former advertisers, their agents, or "prime" customers.

                                                                thank you.
                                                                Admins
                                                                Doug
                                                                "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                                                                Comment

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