Benchmark DAC-1 question

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  • whoaru99
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2004
    • 638

    Benchmark DAC-1 question

    Is it possible to use the Benchmark DAC-1 balanced outputs directly into the balanced inputs of my Levinson #23 amp so that in effect the DAC-1 acts as my preamp?

    CD transport > DAC-1 > Amp > Speakers?

    FWIW - the input impedance of the Levinson amp is listed as 50k Ohms shunted by 1.5nF, but does not list the level required for full output. Voltage gain is listed as 26dB.

    Thanks.
    There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

    ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT
  • aud19
    Twin Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2003
    • 16706

    #2
    If I remember correctly I believe you can... (but wait for an actual owner to confirm ) However you would lose the ability to have remote volume control...
    Jason

    Comment

    • Blazar
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2004
      • 127

      #3
      does the dac1 even have separate volume control? i thought that knob was for the headphone output.
      Blazar!
      (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

      Comment

      • Blazar
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2004
        • 127

        #4
        i just checked the manual on their website... it can be used for volume control but no remote obviously.
        Blazar!
        (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

        Comment

        • JonMarsh
          Mad Max Moderator
          • Aug 2000
          • 15259

          #5
          The Benchmark DAC1 is designed to be able to use direct in to amplifiers, with the volume control switched into the path. You would want to set the internal attenuators to reduce the nominal full scale output level, as the standard setting is +24 dBV, which is WAY too much for the input to a standard power amp, which needs only about +6dBV. The volume control is a pretty decent CERMET, but keep in mind it's designed more as a high quality headphone amp. You'll potentially get slighly better sonics with a high grade external preamp- I prefer it with either my Marchand Passive preamp (which uses Shallco coin silver contact switches in a ladder attenuator), or my Ayre K5x (which uses a discrete electronic volume control with remote). But it will work very well direct in, and I'd say in most cases that sound will be preferred over most preamps in the $1K class or less.

          ~Jon
          the AudioWorx
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          In Development...
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          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

          Comment

          • Blazar
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2004
            • 127

            #6
            I'm going to make my next amp a PS Audio GCC-250 gain cell amp so that I don't have to worry about volume control or a classic pre-amp.
            Blazar!
            (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

            Comment

            • NewBuyer
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2005
              • 122

              #7
              Originally posted by Blazar
              I'm going to make my next amp a PS Audio GCC-250 gain cell amp so that I don't have to worry about volume control or a classic pre-amp.
              Same here. Seems like the perfect solution to me. No volume control distortion, interconnect issues, or pre/power ground hum...

              Comment

              • whoaru99
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2004
                • 638

                #8
                Alright. Here's the deal.

                My current 2-ch system:

                Pre-amp: Yamaha C-80
                Power amp: Mark Levinson No. 23
                Speakers: Paradigm Studio 100v2
                Source: Was Denon DCD-1560 CD player but it just died.
                Cabling: Some no-name Litz-type for speakers, and Monster 300 interconnect modified to RCA > XLR.

                So, on the source I've have been using an old Sony DVD/CD player DVP-S360 which I think has 24/96 DAC, FWIW.

                The question is for the playback components I have now, would there be any point to have the DAC-1 and use the Sony as a transport, or really just better to get a different CD player in general (something like Cambridge 640??) and skip the DAC-1?

                Maybe the question is really, will I notice a WOW difference with the DAC-1 vs a decent CD player or will it be a "maybe" kind of difference that I have to try hard to hear on just the right passage?
                There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

                ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

                Comment

                • jim777
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2005
                  • 831

                  #9
                  At the AES, I heard the DAC1 over HD-600 cans with a cheap source, and it was definitely "WOW". Will it beat a CD player at the same price, like my Rotel RCD-1072? not sure; but the DAC1 can also be used with a laptop, a DVD player, an XBox, digital cable, etc... so if you decide to get it anyway, it will always come in handy somehow

                  Comment

                  • JonMarsh
                    Mad Max Moderator
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 15259

                    #10
                    It's a pretty versatile peice of gear. You might find it very interesting if you do A/B with a similarly priced CD player. In my experience, you have to move up to something in a much more expensive category to give it a good challenge, like an Esoteric DV-50 or Ayre C5xe Universal player (the Esoteric is essentially universal, too; both are optimized for two channel, and don't support multi-channel playback. For music "purists".

                    I'm considering picking up another DAC1 later this year for a music server I'm building.

                    ~Jon
                    the AudioWorx
                    Natalie P
                    M8ta
                    Modula Neo DCC
                    Modula MT XE
                    Modula Xtreme
                    Isiris
                    Wavecor Ardent

                    SMJ
                    Minerva Monitor
                    Calliope
                    Ardent D

                    In Development...
                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                    Obi-Wan
                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                    Modula PWB
                    Calliope CC Supreme
                    Natalie P Ultra
                    Natalie P Supreme
                    Janus BP1 Sub


                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                    Comment

                    • ajpoe
                      Senior Member
                      • Jul 2004
                      • 439

                      #11
                      The DAC1 plugged straight into Paradigm Reference Active/40 speakers produced the cleanest and clearest presentation I’ve heard -- ever. The sound was so transparent, in fact, that some listeners might object to it as being "too clean." Because the sound was so immediate it was obvious that a system like this could be used as a tool for analyzing recordings -- it’s that precise. And when you look at the prices of the components involved -- the Active/40s sold for just $2000 per pair before being discontinued a couple of years ago (one of Paradigm’s most underrated and underappreciated products), and the DAC1 under a kilobuck today -- you can get an idea of what a great value this system is, too. There are systems I’ve heard retailing for several times the price of this one that don’t have nearly the same levels of precision and resolution.
                      Taken from this Benchmark DAC1 review on Soundstage.com.
                      AJPoe - - Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!

                      Comment

                      • whoaru99
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 638

                        #12
                        Have any of you considered, or better yet, listened to the Lavry Engineering DA10 http://www.lavryengineering.com/index_html.html ? You'll have to look under the Pro Audio line.

                        It appears to be a similar device to the DAC1 but using different methodology to address jitter from what I can gather. But, then again I'm not knowledgeable in digital technology...

                        It's at about the same price point.
                        There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

                        ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

                        Comment

                        • NewBuyer
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2005
                          • 122

                          #13
                          Very nice - thanks for the heads-up about this new product. I wonder how this new Lavry Black would compare sonically to the Lavry Blue...

                          Comment

                          • mattburk
                            Senior Member
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 248

                            #14
                            looks great in silver



                            What level of cd player do you need as a transport for this dac? Would this dac be a good step up from the rotel 1072?
                            www.mycstone.com
                            www.coverednow.com
                            www.biarenton.com

                            Comment

                            • ThomasW
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 10934

                              #15
                              What level of cd player do you need as a transport for this dac?
                              Since it reclocks the signal it works great with any player.

                              IB subwoofer FAQ page


                              "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                              Comment

                              • aud19
                                Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 16706

                                #16
                                Originally posted by mattburk
                                looks great in silver



                                What level of cd player do you need as a transport for this dac? Would this dac be a good step up from the rotel 1072?
                                Not bad at all :P
                                Jason

                                Comment

                                • mattburk
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Feb 2003
                                  • 248

                                  #17
                                  and for the money this dac is the best dac/cd upgrade out there?
                                  www.mycstone.com
                                  www.coverednow.com
                                  www.biarenton.com

                                  Comment

                                  • aud19
                                    Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Aug 2003
                                    • 16706

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by mattburk
                                    and for the money this dac is the best dac/cd upgrade out there?
                                    Well that's subjective :B But it should probably be on your short list :T
                                    Jason

                                    Comment

                                    • Blazar
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Feb 2004
                                      • 127

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by mattburk
                                      and for the money this dac is the best dac/cd upgrade out there?

                                      for the most part it appears that way... There are some with higher signal to noise ratios and whatnot, I'm just not sure how good they are or aren't. The Apogee folks appear to have a decent DAC (Mini-DAC) but it's not reviewed in the way the benchmark has been. Of course this may just be reporting bias since very few professional dac's seem to be reviewed in the audio mags. I'm not really sure why they chose this particular pro-dac to review in stereophile when they skip over so many other pro-dacs on a regular basis. There may be $$ involved or advertising or god knows what else.

                                      In the end though, the measured stats of the benchmark are quite excellent. It is unlikely you will get a dramatically better sound by any product once you get to those measured stats, at least not until even better chips are introduced.
                                      Blazar!
                                      (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

                                      Comment

                                      • whoaru99
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Jul 2004
                                        • 638

                                        #20
                                        Would one of you guys who are knowledgeable about the technical details of DACS take a look at the LavryBlack DA10 DAC info for me? The link to the homepage is http://www.lavryengineering.com/index_html.html , then you have to go the Pro Audio section. Didn't see specific specs, but I presume it uses similar technology to their other stuff.

                                        Whatddya think?


                                        EDIT: Appears there is an open forum on the Lavry website; if one knew what questions to ask. I asked if the Lavry unit was fully balanced. The Benchmark is not BTW - whether or not it really matters I don't know.
                                        There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

                                        ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

                                        Comment

                                        • jim777
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Mar 2005
                                          • 831

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by whoaru99
                                          Would one of you guys who are knowledgeable about the technical details of DACS take a look at the LavryBlack DA10 DAC info for me? The link to the homepage is http://www.lavryengineering.com/index_html.html , then you have to go the Pro Audio section. Didn't see specific specs, but I presume it uses similar technology to their other stuff.

                                          Whatddya think?
                                          I think you should also look at their audiophile model, the DA2002. Not many specs are given other than SNR so it is impossible to know if it will sound better or worse than the DAC-1...

                                          An compare was done here (looks like it costs $8500...)
                                          Sony Classical's head of engineering, David Smith, is a man whose opinions on sound quality I have come to respect. So when David e-mailed me a year or so back, enthusing over a new DAC he'd heard, I paid attention. When Lavry Engineering contacted me about reviewing their DA2002, I didn't need much persuading. Lavry...

                                          Comment

                                          • whoaru99
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Jul 2004
                                            • 638

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by jim777
                                            I think you should also look at their audiophile model, the DA2002. Not many specs are given other than SNR so it is impossible to know if it will sound better or worse than the DAC-1...

                                            An compare was done here (looks like it costs $8500...)
                                            http://stereophile.com/digitalproces...ry/index1.html
                                            Won't be spending $8500 on a DAC....

                                            In fact, if the sound of the Benchmark DAC1 does not immediately strike me as an improvement over my Denon DCD-1560 or Pioneer DV-587A or Sony DVP-S360, (what I would consider mid-grade and entry-level units), it'll be going back on their 30-day return policy.

                                            I'm hoping it's here before Nov. 19th as my two brothers are bringing a few toys over for our own personal and informal "shoot-out". The results will be fully anecdotal....
                                            There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

                                            ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

                                            Comment

                                            • Blazar
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Feb 2004
                                              • 127

                                              #23
                                              NOTHING that a DAC can possible do can be worth $8500.... Ive heard plenty and while there are subtle difference occasionally, you rarely get shockingly better sound. lets not forget that at least for CD audio, the "low end" dacs use much better chips at baseline than say a decade ago. Even the reclocking features of a "basic" pro-dac all but eliminate most jitter (and this can be measured).

                                              I just bought a panasonic sa-xr55 and compared it to my prior m-audio delta 1010 dac and rotel 1095 amp and posted a review on avsforum.com. On my B&W 802D speakers I could NOT tell you what the differences if any there were between my m-audio/rotel setup and the new unit playing the same source material.

                                              Both sounded great, but the prior setup cost me around $2500 and the current setup costs $230. You do the math.
                                              Blazar!
                                              (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

                                              Comment

                                              • bigburner
                                                Super Senior Member
                                                • May 2005
                                                • 2649

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by jim777
                                                but the DAC1 can also be used with a laptop, a DVD player, an XBox, digital cable, etc...
                                                jim777, how would you connect it to a laptop?

                                                Comment

                                                • Taito
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Sep 2004
                                                  • 226

                                                  #25
                                                  Hi Bigburner, Creative makes a PCMCIA card which SPDIF (but not with some protected material - could be a problem). I guess that'd be a solution that would work. I'd also be surprised if there's not a USB device out there that'll do the trick.
                                                  -Ben

                                                  Comment

                                                  • jim777
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Mar 2005
                                                    • 831

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by bigburner
                                                    jim777, how would you connect it to a laptop?
                                                    You need an optical or SPDIF output if you don't already have one. If not, since the DAC1 will be doing all the work, you can probably use something cheap like this (30$ I think)
                                                    Turtle Beach delivers a wide selection of industry leading, award-winning gaming headsets. Our sole mission is to help every player play their best - at every level in every game.

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                                                    Comment

                                                    • bigburner
                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                      • May 2005
                                                      • 2649

                                                      #27
                                                      So... the input to the DAC1 is SPDIF, therefore requiring either a USB/SPDIF converter or a PCMCIA card with an SPDIF connector?

                                                      Comment

                                                      • jim777
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Mar 2005
                                                        • 831

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by bigburner
                                                        So... the input to the DAC1 is SPDIF, therefore requiring either a USB/SPDIF converter or a PCMCIA card with an SPDIF connector?
                                                        Yep, you can use any SPDIF (RCA) or toslink (optical) link to your computer.

                                                        Comment

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