Nuforce - Leave the sub, take the amp!

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  • K~J
    Junior Member
    • Aug 2005
    • 11

    Nuforce - Leave the sub, take the amp!

    No, we didn't watch The Godfather. However, we did kick off a day-long audio session with some fantastic cannolis (thanks Jim). Furthermore, we all wrapped up the day with the same thought in mind - leave the sub, take the amp! The Nuforce Reference 9 amps to be specific. Before I go further, let me detail my system:

    - Speakers: VMPS RM30M w/ TRT, Analysis+ and megawoofer upgrades
    - Amp: Bryston 3B-ST
    - Pre-amp: Sherwood-Newcastle R-965 preouts
    - Source: Jolida JD100a
    - Power: BPT Ultra2 w/ bybee filters, hubble outlets, auricaps, silver wiring & L9 PC

    We started off the day plugging the Jolida JD100a into my system to replace my rather archaic DVD player. It produced a nice warm tonality that just gave everything a lush, full sound that I am learning to appreciate very much. I never thought I'd become a tube lover, but this unit is seriously making me reconsider. Additionally, we left the subwoofer disconnected entirely so we could focus on the sound coming from the main speakers only. We didn't want any excuse for confusion.

    After some enjoyable listening with the Bryston, it was time to put the Reference 9s to the test. We swapped them in and our jaws simply dropped! WHERE DID THAT BASS COME FROM?!? Did we accidentally leave the sub in the line? We literally could FEEL the bass as if the sub was still running. Mind you, the bass with the Bryston isn't bad by any means. However, it still has always left me lingering for a little more presence and feel which forced me to use the sub. No longer.

    To ensure we weren't dreaming, we pulled out a real bass kicker - Flight of the Cosmic Hippo. I've always felt this song wasn't as bass heavy as people made it out to be. Perhaps it was my speakers, perhaps it was me, who knows. Now I know why! Now, had I not swapped in the much nicer Jolida, the bass improvement would have been somewhat diminished (we actually tried to be sure). I guess it goes to show you that even one bad link in the chain can slow you down.

    Cut after cut, the bass just seemed tighter and more prominent. Additionally, it felt as if there was greater spatial separation between instruments. Auxilary instrumentation didn't get lost in the shuffle and everything was well balanced. Although I felt we heard greater width in soundstage when burning the Ref 9s in at Jim's, I didn't notice any variation in my setup. This could be due to my equipment being set in a corner while the speakers are pulled out into the room more. After 2 1/2 hours of listening, we plugged the amps into Tyler's system comprising of Parasound Halo amps w/ pre-pro and Dynaudio Contour S5.4 speakers. Ultimately, we concluded that the same characteristics which were revealed earlier presented themselves yet again, but enjoyed another fun 2-3 hours of listening. I'll let Tyler post his thoughts for people to get another take on things.

    Here are some of the tunes we used:

    Dire Straights - Private Investigations
    Nils Lofgren - Little On Up
    Roger Water - Late Home Tonight
    Unknown - Cry Me A River (written by Julie London)
    Dave Brubeck - cuts from Time out
    Peter White - cuts from Glow
    Flight of the Cosmic Hippo - Flight of the Cosmic Hippo (track #4)
    B.B. King - various cuts

    I will admit the amps do get a little bit warmer than I originally thought (point of clarification from my earlier posts). However, they are NOTHING like the big Krell guns that are too hot to touch. Second, to be fair the Ref9 does have some additional power available - 300wpc vs. the 210 @ 4ohm as spec'd by my Bryston sheet.

    Are these amps right for you? I would argue it depends on your situation. If you are in the market for new amps, these should be at the top of your demo list. They are small, quiet and priced very competitively. Should you throw out your high-end amp? Not necessarily. However, if you aren't getting everything out of your speakers and feel the need to augment your setup with a sub...I'd recommend you "leave the sub, and take the amp!"

    -KJ
  • tmueller
    Junior Member
    • Sep 2004
    • 24

    #2
    My Impressions of the Nuforce Gear/Jolida Gear


    First words that come to mind: Wow, I was VERY impressed by the sound. My system typically consists of the following for two-channel:

    Parasound Halo C2 Pre-Pro

    Parasound Halo A51 Amp

    Onkyo DV-SP1000 Universal

    Dynaudio Contour 5.4 Towers

    Dynaudio 500 Subwoofer


    We first auditioned the current setup using Jim's Jolida player. The quality of the transport and pickup is top notch on this unit (as it recognizes your media in about one second flat). The sound was equally impressive. Very full, rich, and inviting. I must say that this player (imho) more natural sounding than my previous Rotel-1072. Overall, I enjoyed the added frequency response it seems to add to my speakers.

    Next we audtioned the NuForce Ref. 9s on my system; they are an extremely excellent amp. They competed flawlessly with my A51 and in a lot of areas sounded better. For example, as KJ and Jim noted, leave the subwoofer at home. These things can make your speakers go so low there really is no need/want for more bass in two channel. The low frequency control seemed flawless as well. Secondly, the mid-range performed better than the A51 in my opinion. As others have noted the STOCK Halo gear tends to be a bit compressed in the mid-range frequencies and this is where I saw another advantage to the Nuforce amps. Did I mention this thing is FAST--It is blazing fast in comparison to other amplifiers I have auditioned. It has damping factor that is out of this world. Finally, the amplifiers are literally so easy to setup in terms of placement that they gain a huge WAF. Not that my A51 looks bad but some significant others my not appreciate a 100 lb silver monster in their living space.

    The Nufore truly did stack up to the A51 and surpassed it some areas. I don't think that one necessarily was the hands down winner but this testing proved the Nuforce's technology is/will be tearing down walls on how amplifiers are typically constructed.

    Overall, these are excellent performers and should be considered in the ranks of all high-end amps for two-channel. (Lose the sub, pick up a good redbook player (perhaps Jolida) and still pocket a bunch of cash.) In home theater they appear to be a viable contener as well. I have a bit of hesitation in plunking down for five of these units for ht. The retail on the Nuforce website for five (5) Ref. 9s is $5100. My A51 retails for $4,000 making the Ref 9’s greater than 20% more costly than my current setup. Furthermore, I would still need the sub for HT. Granted these are retail prices but it is still significantly more to do an HT setup with these little guys.

    Final Note-- I will admit I was very skeptical at first; but, as they say “hearing is believing.” These guys are excellent for a two-channel setup and purists will love them because they can kick the sub to the side and be completely content. If you are still skeptical you need to hear them for yourself. We can arrange it so you can do you own in-home demo so that you can hear the future of amp technology today.

    Good Luck,

    Comment

    • soundhound
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2004
      • 815

      #3
      Sweet, great no-nonsense reviews.......

      Comment

      • Wayne E
        Member
        • May 2004
        • 37

        #4
        Nice. I'm glad some information is starting to flow on these amps. Plus, it seems like your demo music was some good stuff to try the gear out - I would have made similar choices.

        Which power cord did you use for the Nuforce?

        Thanks again for the review.

        Comment

        • jimmyp58
          Super Senior Member
          • Aug 2003
          • 1449

          #5
          Stock power cord that came with the amps.
          jpiscitello@ameritech.net

          Comment

          • brucek
            HTG Expert
            • Aug 2000
            • 303

            #6
            After some enjoyable listening with the Bryston, it was time to put the Reference 9s to the test. We swapped them in and our jaws simply dropped! WHERE DID THAT BASS COME FROM?!?
            Indeed, WHERE DID THAT BASS COME FROM? Are you saying that the Reference 9s colour the sound? do they boost the bass?


            and purists will love them
            Purists usually love sound that is uncoloured. It is certainly provided by amplifiers such as the Bryston. No one usually disputes that fact. Since we agree that Bryston simply amplifies the signal it's given with near zero harmonic distortion over the entire audio spectrum, what can we assume that the NuForce amplifier is doing to the signal? :roll:

            brucek

            Comment

            • jimmyp58
              Super Senior Member
              • Aug 2003
              • 1449

              #7
              No coloration going on with the signal Bruce. I'll leave the technical description to Kevin or Jason but for some reason, and again it isn't 'colored', the bass signal goes deeper, is fuller, and is more lush.

              I have heard amplifiers do what you say may be going on...coloration, and this is not what the NuForce's are doing. I have always been a huge Bryston fan, still am as a matter of fact, but these little buggers do something the Bryston, Krell, or HALO cannot do and that is get that deep with the bass. Granted, we did not demo these amps to some revered HALO JC1's but in all instances, the bass was clearly deeper and in fact neutral in sonic fingerprint.

              Jim
              jpiscitello@ameritech.net

              Comment

              • K~J
                Junior Member
                • Aug 2005
                • 11

                #8
                Indeed, WHERE DID THAT BASS COME FROM? Are you saying that the Reference 9s colour the sound? do they boost the bass?
                No coloration at all. It wasn't a matter of boosting the bass like an EQ. The bass that should have been prominent all along finally revealed itself as did the mids and highs. Obviously, I have come to realize the full potential of my speakers now. I would attribute this ability to the high damping factor provided by the switch-mode power supplies. Because this technology permits little power loss (ie, they are very efficient), the available power on tap was readily usable at any given moment. A linear-powered amp unfortunately is rather inefficient by comparison. These amps demonstrated that they were capable of handling mids and highs very cleanly while easily sustaining low to mid bass.

                You might ask the question "Can't I just use a larger linear-powered amp to obtain the same quantity of bass? Can't I have enough watts running to support heavy bass notes while maintaining good mid/high tonality?" Of course, but better check your wallet first. Two small Nuforce amps kept up (and bettered IMO) with Jim's 800 watt linear-powered beast. Start crunching the financials and well...I'll let you guys do the math. 8O

                -KJ

                Comment

                • brucek
                  HTG Expert
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 303

                  #9
                  I would attribute this ability to the high damping factor provided by the switch-mode power supplies
                  Mmm, I don't really know what to think about that. I don't question what you heard by any means, but I do doubt it's the high damping factor that affects the bass so dramatically compared to the Bryston test amplifier.

                  Once you've lowered an amplifiers output impedance below about 0.08 ohms (which is a damping factor of about 100), lowering it any further has little effect on the perceived tightness of bass. Actually, many would say damping factors above 50 can't be distinguished. I'm not sure I agree with that...

                  Anyway, this is due to the fact that the formula for system damping includes the interconnecting wire between the amplifier and speaker. The inclusion of this wire impedance overwhelmes the smaller amplifier output impedance in the damping formula, rendering it insignificant.

                  For those who may not know, system damping generally effects the "tightness" of bass frequencies. Certainly, the higher the number the better.
                  It's the amplifiers ability to control or damp the speakers voice coil oscillations. When a signal is sent to a speaker and then stopped, the speaker cone continues to move, and creates or presents a back voltage to the amplifier. If the output impedance of the amplifier combined with the impedance of the interconnecting speaker wires is very low (read a short) then this oscillation is damped and the bass sounds very tight. The higher this combined impedance, the more the speakers voice coil will continue to move and effect the sound.

                  Anyway, specification damping factor is a ratio of the load impedance (generally considered a flat 8 ohms) to the output impedance of the amplifier. But generally in practice though, you have to take into consideration the impedance of the wire connecting the two devices and the fact that speakers with passive crossovers are an extremely non-linear device.

                  Lets look at a system damping factor for the Bryston amp with a damping factor of 300 and the NuForce that has a damping factor of 4000.

                  Brystons damping factor of 300 yields an output impedance of 0.026 ohms.
                  NuForce damping factor of 4000 yields an output impedance of 0.002 ohms.

                  Now add in a typical connecting wire of 12 feet of 12 guage cord.
                  12 gauge at 12 feet yields about 0.039 ohms of pure resistance. Capacitive reactance can be ignored as insignificant, as can inductive reactance at the lower frequencies and this short length. I calculate at 100 Hz that inductance would only add about .0015 ohms to 12 feet, so I'll ignore it.

                  Brystons system damping factor is:
                  (speaker impedance) / [(amplifier output impedance) + (wire impedance)]
                  = 8.0 / (0.026 + 0.039)
                  = 123

                  NuForce system damping factor is:
                  (speaker impedance) / [(amplifier output impedance) + (wire impedance)]
                  = 8.0 / (0.002 + 0.039)
                  = 195

                  Not really much of a difference, and certainly not enough to assume this was the reason for your increased bass.

                  Must be other factors involved.....

                  brucek

                  Comment

                  • jimmyp58
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 1449

                    #10
                    You are the master at this stuff Bruce. I am certain there is far more to this than just this. Whatever it is, it is good stuff.
                    jpiscitello@ameritech.net

                    Comment

                    • tmueller
                      Junior Member
                      • Sep 2004
                      • 24

                      #11
                      Bruce,

                      Excellent Explanation; my response is simple: Please loan the amps as a demo and tell me (us) where my Halo A51's, K-J’s Bryston’s, and Jim’s Krell’s bass response is compared to these paper weights?

                      I think you will enjoy the "challenge” as we all did.

                      Comment

                      • Extremephono
                        Junior Member
                        • Jul 2005
                        • 2

                        #12
                        The static calculation of Damping factor could be computed differently by measuring the voltage drop at different frequencies, and with different load.

                        The unique closed-loop design taps the feedback signal after the output filter, so 'dynamically', the output impedance cannot be calculated based on MOSFET RDS-On, but the feedback actively 'subtracts' the impedance.

                        In another words, the high damping factor is not the cause, but the result from having the closed loop response and how the NuForce can drain any back EMF through low impedance energy return path.

                        Comment

                        • Lex
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Apr 2001
                          • 27461

                          #13
                          I'm going to add that tmueller's response concerng his "impressions" is a little "colored" at best, given the fact he works for Jim. Does that make the nf amps inferior? No, but it does bring into question the objectivity of his "impressions". I like for people to have facts to make decisions on, and taking everything he said at face value without knowing he's selling these amps in addition to Jim, wouldn't be to fair.
                          Doug
                          "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                          Comment

                          • tmueller
                            Junior Member
                            • Sep 2004
                            • 24

                            #14
                            Lex, you stated it correctly-I do work for Jim, it has never been a secret. I think the key to my impressions (colored or not) is that I own x gear and sell x gear but y gear is cheaper and give my y results. Colored or not these things are awesome. If I were not being sincere I would recommend the most expensive products we sell. These amps are incredible.

                            Comment

                            • nfjason
                              Junior Member
                              • Aug 2005
                              • 27

                              #15
                              The retail on the Nuforce website for five (5) Ref. 9s is $5100. My A51 retails for $4,000 making the Ref 9’s greater than 20% more costly than my current setup. Furthermore, I would still need the sub for HT. Granted these are retail prices but it is still significantly more to do an HT setup with these little guys.
                              We plan to introduce a 7.1 pre-pro by mid November and bundle with the HT pack for incredible value. For example, 3 Ref 9 + 2 Ref 8 + 7.1 pre-pro MSRP should be less than $5000.

                              2-U height preamp with 7.1 home theater processor.
                              Supported formats:
                              Dolby digital
                              Dolby-EX
                              Dolby Pro-Logic II
                              DTS Digital
                              DTS-ES
                              DTS NEO:6
                              PCM D/A conversion: 44.1K/16-bit to 192K/24-bit (*no up sampling)
                              S/N: 90 dB (A weighted)
                              THD+N:< 0.05%, typical 0.01%
                              Video connections: 2 composite video, 2 s-video, 3 component video
                              Digital audio input: 2 coaxial/optical, *1 CD coaxial (*video circuit off when CD input is selected)
                              Analog audio input: **1 set of 7.1 analog input for SACD/DVD-A, 5 analog input, 1 analog record out. (**7.1 analog input act as 8-ch analog preamp).
                              Physical: 438 x 460 x 90mm, 8Kg
                              Electrical: AC 120/240VAC, 20W
                              Color: Black brushed aluminum face plate with silver button

                              URL Deleted by Admin-

                              For all those 2 channels customers, you can upgrade to HT pack to get the bundle price.

                              Comment

                              • nfjason
                                Junior Member
                                • Aug 2005
                                • 27

                                #16
                                Mmm, I don't really know what to think about that. I don't question what you heard by any means, but I do doubt it's the high damping factor that affects the bass so dramatically compared to the Bryston test amplifier.
                                Oops, I realize that my previous post is advertising for NuForce so the site admin might not like it. Sorry. But here's more relevant reply to the bass question.
                                In our measurement, at various power rating, the bass frequencies showed very low distortion and the bass extended to 20 hz (with only -1 db at 20 hz and +/- 0.1db from 100Hz to 20khz - incredibily straight FR. 50Khz is about -3db).
                                NuForce's damping factor is only one aspect of why it sounded good. Brucek is not wrong in his example. High damping factor (at any frequencies!), zero phase shift, low distortion etc are all results of the super fast feedback and control system that actively compare the input signal with signal at the speaker terminal and perform error cancellation in real time. Therefore the amp is able to instantaneously react to any imperfection in the speaker at any frequency and power level.

                                Comment

                                • EAmin
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Aug 2004
                                  • 282

                                  #17
                                  Stereo pre?

                                  Originally posted by nfjason
                                  We plan to introduce a 7.1 pre-pro by mid November ...
                                  Jason, will you also be developing a stereo preamp as well?

                                  Comment

                                  • mitch57
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Nov 2004
                                    • 429

                                    #18
                                    Just reading these posts I get the feeling that some of this information could easily be interpreted as a marketing sales pitch. I find the information of value but would caution the readers of this forum to consider the source of the reviews.

                                    I personally would be more inclined to consider a "neutural", no affiliation to the product, review by one of our club members. No offense to the reviewers intended just my opinion.
                                    Mitch
                                    :stupidpc:

                                    Comment

                                    • bigburner
                                      Super Senior Member
                                      • May 2005
                                      • 2649

                                      #19
                                      I'm getting the same feeling mitch57. The magical appearance of bass doesn't quite ring true.

                                      Comment

                                      • jimmyp58
                                        Super Senior Member
                                        • Aug 2003
                                        • 1449

                                        #20
                                        Note, AUSSIE GEOFF, who has no affiliation to NuForce or Next Level has heard them and has commented about them. I believe he gave them very high praise.
                                        jpiscitello@ameritech.net

                                        Comment

                                        • bigburner
                                          Super Senior Member
                                          • May 2005
                                          • 2649

                                          #21
                                          jimmyp58, the NuForce amps certainly do look promising. It's just that I've worked in sales & marketing for a multi-national IT company for so long that my antennae are finely tuned to detect spin. After all, I spend half my life creating it!

                                          Comment

                                          • Aussie Geoff
                                            Super Senior Member
                                            • Oct 2003
                                            • 1914

                                            #22
                                            Hi all,

                                            Yes as Jimmy58 suggests - I suspect I was the one to introduce Nuforce amps to HTGuide about a month ago as one of my suggestions to a fellow member looking to upgrade from Rotel Amps (a path I am going down as a result of my rampant ‘upgraditus’)....

                                            Bottom line, while I would not say Nuforce as "the best amp ever" etc - I would say that they are very special indeed and amazing value. I found them to (for my ears) clearly better the sound quality of esteemed amps like the Bel Canto Evo's and Parasound A21...

                                            I have since heard a number of switching amps (including the also very impressive Halcro HC20, 50 and 70) and are starting to see some common sound characteristics amongst them.
                                            • The very tight, deep, punching and amazingly fast bass. All the better switching amps seem to have this "Krell like" capability
                                            • The sound is detailed and accurate - like lifting a veil of your speakers for a more pure reproduction of the music.
                                            • The speakers keep up with complex musical pieces and are fast to respond and control the changes in the music piece (e.g. tempo, soundstage, pitch, tone, focus, etc)
                                            • You can hear nuances of a piece of music or movie soundtrack you haven't heard before or are not emphasised/distinct on most linear analogue amp - e.g. the lingering reverberation of the strings of a bass guitar as it is plucked in a band jam session or actors running over glass as explosions are going off left, right and centre.
                                            • They have a very crisp, wide and deep 3D sound stage (especially in the better amps).

                                            All of these features are in the Nuforce, Halcro, Bel Canto and ICEPower amps I have heard. They are even (to a remarkable extent) present in the all digital Panasonic receivers like the SA-XR70. Some of these amps seem to have “more” of these digital characteristics than others, with the NuForce and Halcro seeming to be a “cut above” the others in quality – especially the 3D sound stage and the clarity of the treble.

                                            The best explanation I have heard for this is that the amplifiers (all based on signals switching through much higher voltages) have low output impedances, resistances to EMF from the speaker, and are able to adjust their drive to follow any change in impedance / reactance etc, since the signal even at low levels is driven from higher voltage / currant switching source. As a result the driving signal couples cleanly on to the speaker, nearly immune to the complex dynamic load they present while playing a music signal. Anyway - who knows if this is true or not, but they do sound different.

                                            I also need to emphasise that I am not trying to say that siwtching amplifiers are always better than linear amplifiers. Just that (for my ears) the combination of sound qualities of the best of the switching amplfiers is hard to beat with any linear amplifier I have heard at anything close to the price...

                                            I participated in some listening / discussion to try and identify what the NuForce sounded like. We concluded that it sounded like SET (Single Ended Triode) valve amplifiers which save the same seemingly vicelike control over speakers. Interestingly these designs generally use a transformer to impedance match the speaker to the amplifier, with the amplifier also able to drive complex loads. These SET amplifiers (often 8 to 12 watts) are famous for their ability to drive difficult loads and play louder than their conventional siblings. So far a hand built SET amplifier remains the closest sound I know to the NuForce. The other is the Halcro MC20, 50 and 70, which is also a seriously impressive amplifier (and are also switching based). My memory is that some of the true class A Krell’s (like the FPB series) also have much of this same sound as well as the Classe MA-400 monoblocks.

                                            (By the way, I like to buy Australian when I can – and the main thing that put me off the otherwise excellent Halcro's was their fans, which I found to audible for stereo use, thought they were fine for HT. These too - for my ears "blew away" amps like the Parasound A21, Accuphase's and even high power Valve amplifiers)

                                            Anyway… I am not a dealer. I have no axes to grind. I have just been waiting for others I trust to review the NuForce’s as well to make sure I wasn’t going crazy about how good they sounded… Now I intend to save hard, then put my money where my postings are any buy 7 of them for my system… (Unless something even better comes out while I am saving of course )

                                            Geoff
                                            Last edited by Aussie Geoff; 07 September 2005, 07:27 Wednesday.

                                            Comment

                                            • Pieter
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jan 2005
                                              • 219

                                              #23
                                              Am I undetanding this correctly regarding the NuForce amps:
                                              Their feedback/error correction makes them practically immune to a speakers erratic impedance response and almost negates the need for fancy cable?

                                              It knows what it sends out, compares this to what is returned, does what is needed to get them the "same", and Voila, the "perfect" amp/speaker interface?

                                              Comment

                                              • David Meek
                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                • Aug 2000
                                                • 8938

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Pieter
                                                Am I undetanding this correctly regarding the NuForce amps:
                                                Their feedback/error correction makes them practically immune to a speakers erratic impedance response and almost negates the need for fancy cable?

                                                It knows what it sends out, compares this to what is returned, does what is needed to get them the "same", and Voila, the "perfect" amp/speaker interface?
                                                Pieter, your second question sounds a lot like a description of a servo-controlled sub's operation. The output signal is compared to the input and corrections are applied as deemed necessary to get the output as close as possible to the input.

                                                Not sure where else to go with that. . . .
                                                .

                                                David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                                Comment

                                                • David Meek
                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                  • 8938

                                                  #25
                                                  The comparisons I'd like to see (hear?) are the Nu-force Ref 9's along side the new Yamaha MX-D1 and the Parasound Halo JC-1s. Maybe not quite an apples-to-apples comparison - the Yamaha is digital but it's a stereo unit and the JC-1s are "analog" monoblocks - but as those two amps are on my short list it'd be most useful to me.

                                                  Hint. Hint. :
                                                  .

                                                  David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Lex
                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                    • Apr 2001
                                                    • 27461

                                                    #26
                                                    Addressing the "bias":

                                                    Ok guys, I'm not going to get into a pissing match, because I will win. I'd told the advertiser in question that he could not have 3 or 4 agents posting at the forum collectively known as reps from that single advertiser location, in fairness to all competing advertisers, only one posting signatured advertiser is allowed, so no, your affiliation to NL was not obvious TMueller, at least it wasn't supposed to be, and that was by my own design in not allowing multiple agents posting on behalf of a single firm. I felt that was a bit to much of any "good thing" and could be perceived as to much marketing ploy. So, in short, you should not have posted to this thread to begin with, since it's a product Jim sells. But since you did, I felt it should be aired out to the members.

                                                    Any further discussion along these lines now, or "SELLING" in this thread whether direct or indirect by advertisers and others will be deleted without notice.


                                                    Addendum to my original post. Come to find out, there were even MORE advertiser related posters in this thread than originally thought. Add K~J to that list.
                                                    Doug
                                                    "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Pieter
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Jan 2005
                                                      • 219

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by David Meek
                                                      Pieter, your second question sounds a lot like a description of a servo-controlled sub's operation. The output signal is compared to the input and corrections are applied as deemed necessary to get the output as close as possible to the input.
                                                      Yes, it does rather.

                                                      I still have to read whatever NuForce has posted on their site, but hoped someone could give us the low-down here.

                                                      Comment

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