Tube output CD players?

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  • tboooe
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2005
    • 657

    Tube output CD players?

    Hi, I am curious to know what model tube output CD player people use. I have just started my search for one and would love to know what people us. So far my list includes Musical Fidelity, Shanling.

    thank you.
  • jimmyp58
    Super Senior Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 1449

    #2
    There's a couple folks here using a Jolida JD100A with great results.
    jpiscitello@ameritech.net

    Comment

    • soundhound
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2004
      • 815

      #3
      Jolida JD100, and I keep growing fonder of it every time I listen to it. It is very well built, very nice looking, and accesses functions very quickly which universal cd/ dvd players won't do. It's well worth its price (Thanks Jim) to those of us who are about bang for the buck, and as far as the sound, mine is still new and only keeps getting better, and then I haven't begun the tube swapping yet........It is very smooth sounding out of the wrapper, much less brittle than any other I had owned (all ss). It is well worth the price of admission.

      Comment

      • Bob
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2000
        • 802

        #4
        I have a tube output player made by a fellow in Arizona. His company is Granite Audio. It is a very good player. Here is the web address:

        Granite Audio - We manufacture high-end vacuum tube amps, preamps, & audio stereo speaker systems. Unique acrylic-granite speakers, home theater speaker systems, silver cables, decorator granite colors.


        I replaced the output tubes with Super Low Noise Tubes from The Tube Audio Store. I have used these tubes in all my tube preamps also, except my present one. They are well worth the $60 or so that it costs. Here is the web address:

        Comment

        • tboooe
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2005
          • 657

          #5
          soundhound:

          did you consider being one of thos level 1 or 2 upgraded Jolida's? I was looking at the ones made by Underwood. Did you audition the Cary 303/300? Is worth almost 3 times as much?

          Bob, i will check the granite audio site.

          Everyone, I heard good things about the NOS tubes? Any experience?

          Comment

          • soundhound
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2004
            • 815

            #6
            I am a believer of manufacturers getting it right. Alot of times "upgrades" will consist of $30-$80 worth of parts, which c'mon, a product manufacturer could get much cheaper because of the quantities they would purchase. Now if on a $1000 machine they could have used $20 worth of different parts and achieved what people claim they were lacking, don't you suppose they would have opted for that? I am new enough to tubes that I may tinker there eventually because they are cheap enough and I would believe they make a machine sound different. More for curiosities sake than anything. I didn't demo any, I just read reviews, snooped around on line. JimmyP58 set me up with an oem, for a good price, and sonically I find no need to modify. The beauty of much of this is, that if you don't pay to much to begin with, you in home demo and find you don't like it, you can normally get you're money back reselling. Good luck, and enjoy, Bob

            Comment

            • mark4x4
              Member
              • Jul 2004
              • 32

              #7
              Originally posted by tboooe
              soundhound:

              did you consider being one of thos level 1 or 2 upgraded Jolida's? I was looking at the ones made by Underwood. Did you audition the Cary 303/300? Is worth almost 3 times as much?

              Bob, i will check the granite audio site.

              Everyone, I heard good things about the NOS tubes? Any experience?
              I have the Jolida JD100 and have auditioned the Cary 300. I A/B both of them with the same components, I would give the edge to the Jolida, although the Cary had a better transport. They are both excellent players, but the Jolida had a little better resolution in the mids and given the fact that the Cary is three times the price it was a no brainer for me.

              You can check out www.soundodyssey.com they also do upgrades to the Jolida. I've said this in another post that not all mods are created equal. I have a friend thats does allot of mods and some help more than others. I believe manufacturers design a product within a certain value thay would like to achieve, giving consideration to price/profit ratio. I for one believe that you can get the Jolida to sound better, but how much better and at what cost?

              I've swapped out tubes and they make a huge difference. I've tried 3 different tubes, it comes stock with Chinese 12AX7A, the next 2 were NOS, Jan GE 5751 and Jan Philips 12AX7WA, then finally settling on a pair of Electro Harmonix 12AX7EH. I don't believe just because a tube is NOS makes them any better. The only factor on selecting tubes should be your ears. I found that the Electo Harmonix tubes gave me everything that I was looking for, but keep in mind since your system is different these tubes may not work for you.

              Just my thoughts,
              Mark

              Comment

              • scottielee
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2005
                • 121

                #8
                audio aero and balanced audio also offer tubed cd players. i have heard them at shows and dealers with very different setups, so i can't offer any solid descriptions.

                in regards to tubes, i agree with Mark that nos doesn't necessary means better. my amp dealer uses new production electro harmonix tubes through out with excellent results. for my amps' 12au7 input tubes, i have experimented with jan philips 5814a, mullard cv4003, siemens e82cc, and siemens 5814a triple mica being my favorite. the differences between all of them were not drastic, but noticeable enough to make or break my listening enjoyment.

                Comment

                • tboooe
                  Senior Member
                  • Jun 2005
                  • 657

                  #9
                  Mark and Scottielee:

                  Thank you for the responses. I am VERY new to the concept of tubes. Where do you purchase your tubes from? What does NOS mean? For a beginner, are there particular brands I should look into or avoid? ARe there certain brands that have signature sounds?

                  Thanks for the help. I look forward to experimenting with tubes.

                  Comment

                  • NonSense
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2003
                    • 138

                    #10
                    NOS refers to New Old Stock. There are very few new tubes being manufactered, Therefore, from my understanding, NOS refers to Tubes that are generally new, but may have been sitting on the shelf for a few decades.

                    You can find several internet sites which sell tubes. Chris Johnson at Parts Connexion has a good selection as well as new and modified tube players.
                    Bruce

                    Comment

                    • mark4x4
                      Member
                      • Jul 2004
                      • 32

                      #11
                      Originally posted by tboooe
                      Mark and Scottielee:

                      Thank you for the responses. I am VERY new to the concept of tubes. Where do you purchase your tubes from? What does NOS mean? For a beginner, are there particular brands I should look into or avoid? ARe there certain brands that have signature sounds?

                      Thanks for the help. I look forward to experimenting with tubes.
                      NonSense is correct, NOS stands for "new old stock". Also, "Jan" stands for "joint army navy" military spec tubes which carries tighter tolerances than the other tubes. Does it make a difference, I don't think that just because they are military spec tubes that it makes any difference, more difference will come from the model of tube you decide to use.

                      I've purchased tubes from www.tubedepot.com www.tubeman.com and www.partsconnexion.com I've had good luck from all of them.

                      As far as brands and signature of sounds, there are too many factors to answer a question like that. Synergistics has allot to do with the quality of sound that you will get, some tube may matchup better than others to your particular component. Also, tubes are a great way of tweeking your system, I can get my system to sound very smooth and laid back or more detailed with a little more highs and bottom end, just by changing tubes.

                      One last suggestion, if you order 2 tubes make sure you ask for a match pair. They can test the tubes to make sure that the outputs match.

                      Hopes this helps, good luck and have FUN.
                      Mark

                      Comment

                      • Bob
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2000
                        • 802

                        #12
                        I agree with soundhound that most of the companies that make tube equipment have already experimented with various tubes and have used the ones that sound best with their product and are easily obtained. That is one reason I stick with the Super Low Noise Tubes they are the same type tubes that came with the different products but have been tested for noise.
                        Experimenting with changing types of tubes can be expensive. What works well with one product may sound awful with another. I wouldn't start down that path until you have at least a fair amount of knowledge on how the various components you own work.
                        Even though all my components, except the phono stage, have tubes I am still a firm believer in SS components, especially in amps and phono amps. In fact, I hope that the day will come that class D amps can compete with the best tube and ss amps. I would love to have low heat, high powered, low weight amps instead of the Audio Research behemoths I now own. They just have to sound as good, or better.

                        Comment

                        • tboooe
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2005
                          • 657

                          #13
                          mark 4x4, thank you so much for the detailed response!

                          Comment

                          • scottielee
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2005
                            • 121

                            #14
                            www.upscaleaudio.com is another trustworthy place for well tested and matched tubes. as many members have already pointed out, there are no super do-it-all tubes since they come in vast varieties even within the same type. a good tube question would include the specific component using the tubes, the rest of your system, and how would you like to change the sound.

                            brand reputation can be confusing nowadays. many current tube makers are selling under licensed brand names of which the original factories are no longer running. not to say that current make tubes are bad. just be aware that nos and current make tubes bearing the same brand do sound very different. more simply: different vintage+different factory+same brand=different sound.

                            also keep in mind that great care must be taken when selecting tubes. a faulty tube can potentially damage a component. but your hard work will be greatly rewarded :T

                            Comment

                            • tboooe
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2005
                              • 657

                              #15
                              thanks for the great advice scottielee!

                              Comment

                              • Tarbaby
                                Junior Member
                                • Feb 2004
                                • 15

                                #16
                                I'm using Vincent cd S-6 mk tube cd player, this is a newer company from Germany. I had the Shenya S-10, which is nice player for the money, it offers tube output with Burr-Brown DAC's, Solen caps, Phillips mechanism for under $500.

                                Comment

                                • soundhound
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Mar 2004
                                  • 815

                                  #17
                                  I recently added a set of Doug's Kingcats to my Jolida cd. I run the silver for cd anaolg out to pre in, set to analog bypass, and silverfrom my main outs into my 2 channel amp in. The combo is phoenominal, the Jolida completely removes the brittle sound, softened it up nicely, the silver cables opened it up, so its allmost like listening to an old album, minus the stylus noise. It is exactly what I was after.
                                  Last edited by soundhound; 18 August 2005, 07:19 Thursday.

                                  Comment

                                  • tboooe
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jun 2005
                                    • 657

                                    #18
                                    Thanks for the post everyone. I have settled on the Cary 303/300. I like the idea of having both solid state and tube outputs. I am looking forward to doing some tube rolling. Next up will be to look into Tube Preamps.

                                    thanks again.

                                    Comment

                                    • NMyTree
                                      Senior Member
                                      • May 2004
                                      • 520

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Tarbaby
                                      I'm using Vincent cd S-6 mk tube cd player, this is a newer company from Germany. I had the Shenya S-10, which is nice player for the money, it offers tube output with Burr-Brown DAC's, Solen caps, Phillips mechanism for under $500.
                                      I have the Vincent S6 on order, and it should be here over the next two weeks.

                                      Would you mind sharing your thoughts and experiences on this player?
                                      Tony

                                      Comment

                                      • tboooe
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Jun 2005
                                        • 657

                                        #20
                                        nmytree:
                                        absolutely...i will post a review once I get it...same with you...its always cool and educational to read about other people's experiences.

                                        I must say that I did not look at the Vincent cd player...there are so many out there that I guess it slipped through the cracks. After doing a quick google search, the reviews are impressive. I like the fact that it has a tube gain and buffer stage. That lends itself to even more tweaking with tube rolling. The Cary only has a tube buffer stage so I am not getting the full affect of tubes. One thing I did not see, does the s6 also have a SS output? Is it an upsampling player? Just curious, these were some nice features that the Cary had that ultimately swayed me. If I was not able to get an unbelievable price on the Cary I would have defninitely looked eslewhere, including the Vincent.

                                        Just out of curiosity, why is the Vincent coming from Germany? From what I read its a Chinese brand. Are there no authorized US distributors?

                                        Comment

                                        • NMyTree
                                          Senior Member
                                          • May 2004
                                          • 520

                                          #21
                                          tboooe,

                                          This is something I posted about a month or two ago, regarding Vincent and their situation. I'll re-post it in here (below). This is what I have heard from a very reliable source close to the situation.

                                          I wanted to share some information regarding Vincent CD Players and gear, which I've recently just heard.

                                          Apparently,

                                          Vincent filed a lawsuit (three years ago) against the people who stole their designs and were producing inferior or rebadged versions of their designs. And Vincent won. Shengya and other cloners were forced to shut it down.

                                          There was a distributor here in the USA who was carrying another Vincent clone, called "Kavent". Well, "Kavent " no longer exists and the distributor's website seem to be history too.

                                          You will notice that all those clones have been and are disappearing off the market, and the guilty being shut down. The distributers who were selling the clones, were ordered to cease/desist.

                                          Vincent has been re-establishing a distribution network and they are back in full swing .....

                                          ( http://www.vincent-tac.de/en/distributoren.php ) or

                                          ( http://www.vincent-tac.de/ )

                                          If you're in the USA and interested in Vincent products contact Brian at...... http://www.q-usa.com/


                                          P.S. From what I understand, Vincent is now being produced in a factory which only produces two high quality name brands; Mercedes Benz automobile computers, and Vincent audio gear, that's it. There is a high standard of quality control at this manufactoring plant.
                                          Tony

                                          Comment

                                          • NMyTree
                                            Senior Member
                                            • May 2004
                                            • 520

                                            #22
                                            tboooe, the Vincent S6 only has one output stage, the one involving the tubes. No Solid State.

                                            It does not oversample. It does 24Bit/96khz HDCD.
                                            Tony

                                            Comment

                                            • mattburk
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Feb 2003
                                              • 248

                                              #23
                                              this one is up from the dead? Any one here try a kavent? The are in business info above is outdated-shenya supplies kavent and vincent. I read a review in hifi choice that seemed pretty glowing on their tub cd players.
                                              www.mycstone.com
                                              www.coverednow.com
                                              www.biarenton.com

                                              Comment

                                              • alebonau
                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                • Oct 2005
                                                • 992

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by mattburk
                                                this one is up from the dead? Any one here try a kavent? The are in business info above is outdated-shenya supplies kavent and vincent. I read a review in hifi choice that seemed pretty glowing on their tub cd players.
                                                not sure about that but I use a musical fidelity A5 CD player which has a couple of valves on its output stage.


                                                a beautifull sound !
                                                Attached Files
                                                "Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."

                                                Comment

                                                • twitch54
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Apr 2006
                                                  • 340

                                                  #25
                                                  Curious...... where are the tubes vented on the A-5 ?? the top is solid correct ??
                                                  Dave

                                                  Comment

                                                  • kurtholz
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Feb 2005
                                                    • 345

                                                    #26
                                                    I use a Consonance SACD, i am very pleased with it's performance, a lot of great reviews have been posted you can find ion the various websites, i would concur with there findings

                                                    Kurt

                                                    Comment

                                                    • alebonau
                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                      • Oct 2005
                                                      • 992

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by twitch54
                                                      Curious...... where are the tubes vented on the A-5 ?? the top is solid correct ??
                                                      its a completely sealed unit. the valves are quite tiny mil-spec philips 6112 mu-vistas. The CD player itself runs cool.
                                                      Attached Files
                                                      "Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."

                                                      Comment

                                                      • twitch54
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Apr 2006
                                                        • 340

                                                        #28
                                                        Interesting, it looks as if they are soldered to the board, so I guess "rolling" of tubes is not a feasable option. I still think it would be wise to vent, I can't think of any other tube equipment made today that dosen't.
                                                        Dave

                                                        Comment

                                                        • alebonau
                                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                                          • Oct 2005
                                                          • 992

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by twitch54
                                                          Interesting, it looks as if they are soldered to the board, so I guess "rolling" of tubes is not a feasable option. I still think it would be wise to vent, I can't think of any other tube equipment made today that dosen't.
                                                          I understand being mil-spec tubes theyre extremely long life. Being on an ouput stage as well theyre not designed to be pushed very hard at all as per other mf tube output designs over the years. Infact these I understand are designed to last the life of the player not requiring replacement. Its not designed for tube rolling either. They are quite a unique tube, not a common garden variety tube. nothing of equivalence out there and not designed for replacment.

                                                          The cabinet is solid steel and with thick alluminium heat sinks down the side, thick aluminium extruded front. As with many electrical cabinets the case acts as heat sink and absorbs any heat generated. if you saw how small these tubes are you'd realise they will not generate much heat at all for concern, plus as mentioned the casing is infact cool to touch so heat is not a concern for me.

                                                          The x-10v3 valve output stage that MF make that uses these same tubes is also a completely sealed unit with aluminium body casing/heat sinks.That runs cool as a cucumber.
                                                          Attached Files
                                                          Last edited by alebonau; 05 January 2007, 08:25 Friday.
                                                          "Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."

                                                          Comment

                                                          • sy0296
                                                            Junior Member
                                                            • Jan 2007
                                                            • 6

                                                            #30
                                                            i've recently added a opera audio consonance droplet cdp5.0 replacing an older rotel cd player. the difference was huge (mainly how people describe "tube sound") but what i love most about it is the huge sounds stage and the airiness to it.

                                                            over the years i've ripped a lot of my cd's via "exact audio copy" then converting to variable bit-rate mp3 with a "lame.exe compressor" for use on my ipod. i previously found the setup to be equivalent to cd's when played back on my system. with the new cd player, i'm breaking open boxes left and right trying to find my favorite cd's only to be pleasantly surprised with new details and sounds that i've never heard the thousands of times i listened to them before.

                                                            anyways, i bought the player because i wanted to see the difference for myself. now i'm pushing all my friends to go out and buy their own tube output cd players so i can see the difference between the brands. i've loved music all my life (compose, record, perform) and the new cd player has made the love even stronger
                                                            Sony KDS-R60XBR1
                                                            Oppo Digital OPDV971H
                                                            Opera Audio Consenance Droplet CD5.0
                                                            Sony Playstation 3
                                                            Sunfire Theater Grand VI
                                                            Arcam FMJ P7
                                                            B&W 803
                                                            B&W HTM3s
                                                            Paradigm ADP-70
                                                            SVS 20-39 PC-Plus
                                                            Crystal Cable Reference Interconnects (CDP to Pre/Pro, Front Stage Pre/Pro to Amp)
                                                            Crystal Cable Micro Interconnects (Center + Surround Stage Pre/Pro to Amp)
                                                            Audioquest VDM-5 (DVDP to Pre/Pro)
                                                            Audioquest Optilink-3 (PS3 to Pre/Pro)
                                                            Crystal Cable Reference Speaker Cables

                                                            Comment

                                                            • krek
                                                              Junior Member
                                                              • Jun 2005
                                                              • 28

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by NMyTree
                                                              tboooe,

                                                              This is something I posted about a month or two ago, regarding Vincent and their situation. I'll re-post it in here (below). This is what I have heard from a very reliable source close to the situation.

                                                              I wanted to share some information regarding Vincent CD Players and gear, which I've recently just heard.

                                                              Apparently,

                                                              Vincent filed a lawsuit (three years ago) against the people who stole their designs and were producing inferior or rebadged versions of their designs. And Vincent won. Shengya and other cloners were forced to shut it down.

                                                              There was a distributor here in the USA who was carrying another Vincent clone, called "Kavent". Well, "Kavent " no longer exists and the distributor's website seem to be history too.

                                                              You will notice that all those clones have been and are disappearing off the market, and the guilty being shut down. The distributers who were selling the clones, were ordered to cease/desist.

                                                              Vincent has been re-establishing a distribution network and they are back in full swing .....

                                                              ( http://www.vincent-tac.de/en/distributoren.php ) or

                                                              ( http://www.vincent-tac.de/ )

                                                              If you're in the USA and interested in Vincent products contact Brian at...... http://www.q-usa.com/


                                                              P.S. From what I understand, Vincent is now being produced in a factory which only produces two high quality name brands; Mercedes Benz automobile computers, and Vincent audio gear, that's it. There is a high standard of quality control at this manufactoring plant.
                                                              The Vincent-Shengya story here in Holland is the opposite of the story placed here. What I understand is that Vincent buys Shengya stuf and when in Germany they change the labels (and some say also change the machines internally). So buying a Shengya is promoted as buying Vincent gear, but for half the price. For instance, Shengya also has a CD 10cs, which has balanced outputs (the same as the Vincent S6mk).

                                                              Comment

                                                              • BrianJD
                                                                Junior Member
                                                                • Jun 2004
                                                                • 21

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by krek
                                                                The Vincent-Shengya story here in Holland is the opposite of the story placed here. What I understand is that Vincent buys Shengya stuf and when in Germany they change the labels (and some say also change the machines internally). So buying a Shengya is promoted as buying Vincent gear, but for half the price. For instance, Shengya also has a CD 10cs, which has balanced outputs (the same as the Vincent S6mk).
                                                                This is getting a little messy but it went like this...

                                                                Thorens/Vincent products designed in Germany and built in ShengYa factory.

                                                                Products were very popular, great price/performance ratio.

                                                                ShengYa distributed to whomever same Vincent designs with ShengYa badge, also Kavent badge. Kavent had better parts designed for US market. Most ShengYa was grey market not designed for US with 220v.

                                                                Thorens/Vincent pressured ShengYa to stop this practice. Which they did, with an agreement that ShengYa could still produce a few select items with ShengYa badge.

                                                                HTH

                                                                Comment

                                                                • krek
                                                                  Junior Member
                                                                  • Jun 2005
                                                                  • 28

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Indeed messy, but units vincent or shengya are still the same right? I googled for some specs and found that the vincent cd-s6 and shengya cd-s10 have the same specs:
                                                                  -same tubes
                                                                  -same cd mechanism (philips vam1202)
                                                                  -same DAC (burr brown 24/96)
                                                                  -Burr-Brown opamps(digital outout)

                                                                  Comment

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